Question about when it is considered appropriate to defend myself and to what degree. - Page 13
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Thread: Question about when it is considered appropriate to defend myself and to what degree.

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    There are no restrictions on age at all? I had previously heard that in order to obtain a permit for CCW you need to be at least 21. I heard incorrectly obviously! Would you apply for a CCW permit through the same process? I thought I had a fairly good understanding.. clearly not!
    The process varies from State to State. To get a non-resident NH, you must first possess any other States CCW. In your case your only options are ND or ME as they issue at age 18 with the only requirement besides a clean criminal background being a training class. For ND, you must be administered a written exam by a ND certified test administrator.
    I don't understand how someone can be sued if its proven that the shooting took place due to self defense, doesn't seem reasonable to me..is it a civil law issue, even if it's proven that the shooting took place for self defense and you are not prosecuted by the state?
    We live in a litigation makes right society. Criminals can sue property owners for getting injured on their property during the commission of a crime. There's a lot of case law on this issue in virtually all States. This is why you can be sued for wrongful death or personal injury in States that do not have blanket civil suit immunity for lawful self defense. You can sue anyone for any reason unless there's a law prohibiting it. Part of the castle doctrine and stand your ground statutes is a prohibition of civil suits for lawful acts of self defense. You don't have such a thing in PA which is why you can get sued for personal injury or wrongful death in PA.

    Case and point, we have civil suit immunity for use of lethal force in your domicile in Nevada, but not in public. If someone attempts to vehicle jack me and I lawfully defend myself from the incident, I can be sued for wrongful death or personal injury.

    However if the incident happens in my home and I go Tony Montana and cut the subjects in half with with my MAK-90, AR-15 or one of my shotguns and it's obvious it was an act of home defense Henderson PD will just come and do the necessary evidence processing and eventually I get my firearms used in the incident back with no harm no foul as it was defense of habitation with civil suit immunity under NRS 41.095. The prosecution has the burden of proof that it was not an act of self defense in my home State of Nevada.

    I probably will get the same courtesy for an act of self defense in public but I also know that I can expect a process server with a civil suit sometime in the future for justifiable use of lethal force until we have a stand your ground statute in Nevada with civil suit immunity.

    Now if I'm in FL, IN or MO and someone attempts to auto jack me, I'm immune from civil suits because their respective State laws cover all lawful acts of self defense. We've already had at least one incident of the Florida stand your ground statute being tested.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post

    Now if I'm in FL, IN or MO and someone attempts to auto jack me, I'm immune from civil suits because their respective State laws cover all lawful acts of self defense. We've already had at least one incident of the Florida stand your ground statute being tested.
    TN recently passed a law like this. It hasn't been tested but it states that if it is found that the shooting was justified self defense, you can not be sued in a civil court.

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    The process varies from State to State. To get a non-resident NH, you must first possess any other States CCW. In your case your only options are ND or ME as they issue at age 18 with the only requirement besides a clean criminal background being a training class. For ND, you must be administered a written exam by a ND certified test administrator.

    We live in a litigation makes right society. Criminals can sue property owners for getting injured on their property during the commission of a crime. There's a lot of case law on this issue in virtually all States. This is why you can be sued for wrongful death or personal injury in States that do not have blanket civil suit immunity for lawful self defense. You can sue anyone for any reason unless there's a law prohibiting it. Part of the castle doctrine and stand your ground statutes is a prohibition of civil suits for lawful acts of self defense. You don't have such a thing in PA which is why you can get sued for personal injury or wrongful death in PA.

    Case and point, we have civil suit immunity for use of lethal force in your domicile in Nevada, but not in public. If someone attempts to vehicle jack me and I lawfully defend myself from the incident, I can be sued for wrongful death or personal injury.

    However if the incident happens in my home and I go Tony Montana and cut the subjects in half with with my MAK-90, AR-15 or one of my shotguns and it's obvious it was an act of home defense Henderson PD will just come and do the necessary evidence processing and eventually I get my firearms used in the incident back with no harm no foul as it was defense of habitation with civil suit immunity under NRS 41.095. The prosecution has the burden of proof that it was not an act of self defense in my home State of Nevada.

    I probably will get the same courtesy for an act of self defense in public but I also know that I can expect a process server with a civil suit sometime in the future for justifiable use of lethal force until we have a stand your ground statute in Nevada with civil suit immunity.

    Now if I'm in FL, IN or MO and someone attempts to auto jack me, I'm immune from civil suits because their respective State laws cover all lawful acts of self defense. We've already had at least one incident of the Florida stand your ground statute being tested.
    Am I able to take the training class in PA?

    Hmm, so that's a lot to take into consideration..I will be in FL come August, and won't be able to CCW anway, but until then if I decide to CCW there is a lot to take into account.
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    Am I able to take the training class in PA?
    Yes. ME takes any NRA training. ND requires that the test be administered by a ND certified instructor. ND is your best bet as it's honored in PA. There are two in PA as of the last list. See the ND AG instructor list for the list and contact information. If you wish to go this route, request some application packages from the ND AG's Office.
    Hmm, so that's a lot to take into consideration..I will be in FL come August, and won't be able to CCW anway, but until then if I decide to CCW there is a lot to take into account.
    If you plan on traveling to States where the ND, NH and ME combination will work for you then IMO it's worth getting. Once you turn 21, get PA and UT and let your ND lapse. If you're in FL, it may be easier just to use your ND training certificate to get FL while you're there since they do issue quickly if you do electronic fingerprinting.

    Unfortunately your only options for legal CCW in FL is to get a resident PA or a FL, both issue at 21 or over. It's also codified under FL Statute 790.015 that you must possess a resident CCW and be 21 or over to be extended recognition or reciprocity.

    The only reason to get ND is if you live in ND or if you're 18 to under 21 and are looking for some method of lawful CCW in States that extend recognition or reciprocity to 18 to under 21 year olds. In most States, the 21 year chronological age requirement is to apply, not to legally carry under a recognized or reciprocal CCW.
    Last edited by LVLouisCyphre; 02-02-2009 at 11:37 AM.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  6. I may be wrong, but I think to get a NH non-resident, you have to have a resident permit in your home state. The NH non-resident app asks for your resident state permit number. I looked into it because I plan on getting one as I travel to NH now and then. I don't know if they would accept a training certificate from your home state in lieu of a valid permit.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrc1962 View Post
    I may be wrong, but I think to get a NH non-resident, you have to have a resident permit in your home state. The NH non-resident app asks for your resident state permit number. I looked into it because I plan on getting one as I travel to NH now and then. I don't know if they would accept a training certificate from your home state in lieu of a valid permit.
    NH is a no training required or needed State. Training is irrelevant.

    NH changed that the fall of 2004. See the NH SP non-resident pistol and revolver license application. Note item one if you're a non-resident except for VT; to be issued a non-resident NH license. "A copy (front & back) of your valid concealed carry permit issued by the state, county, or town in which you reside, or a valid concealed permit issued by any other state." Note the revision date of the DSSP260 (the application form number) is 1/05.
    Last edited by LVLouisCyphre; 02-02-2009 at 12:46 PM.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  8. #127
    GabbyDP,

    I think we're miscommunicating, here (imagine that). I agree that women are more apt to be assaulted than men. My point about women being granted more slack than men had to do with the response of law enforcement. If I'm punched in the face, have my nose broken, and shoot the attacker, I think I'm gonna have more trouble with the law than a woman who responds the same way. Does this make sense or am I still sinking in "gender bias" mire?

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    NH is a no training required or needed State. Training is irrelevant.

    NH changed that the fall of 2004. See the NH SP non-resident pistol and revolver license application. Note item one if you're a non-resident except for VT; to be issued a non-resident NH license. "A copy (front & back) of your valid concealed carry permit issued by the state, county, or town in which you reside, or a valid concealed permit issued by any other state." Note the revision date of the DSSP260 (the application form number) is 1/05.
    Hmm, all in all it may be worth waiting. If I'm understanding correctly, I have to be 21 to CCW in Florida, regardless of having permits in other states, etc. And seeing as I will be moving to Florida come July or August, it seems that it won't be worthwhile to take training classes now etc, assuming that I would want to take them again before getting my permit to CCW in Florida. Does it sound like I understand all of this correctly? Slightly confused..but I think I understand the general idea.
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    Yes. ME takes any NRA training. ND requires that the test be administered by a ND certified instructor. ND is your best bet as it's honored in PA. There are two in PA as of the last list. See the ND AG instructor list for the list and contact information. If you wish to go this route, request some application packages from the ND AG's Office.

    If you plan on traveling to States where the ND, NH and ME combination will work for you then IMO it's worth getting. Once you turn 21, get PA and UT and let your ND lapse. If you're in FL, it may be easier just to use your ND training certificate to get FL while you're there since they do issue quickly if you do electronic fingerprinting.

    Unfortunately your only options for legal CCW in FL is to get a resident PA or a FL, both issue at 21 or over. It's also codified under FL Statute 790.015 that you must possess a resident CCW and be 21 or over to be extended recognition or reciprocity.

    The only reason to get ND is if you live in ND or if you're 18 to under 21 and are looking for some method of lawful CCW in States that extend recognition or reciprocity to 18 to under 21 year olds. In most States, the 21 year chronological age requirement is to apply, not to legally carry under a recognized or reciprocal CCW.
    Ok, I definitely understand now
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  11. #130
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    it seems that it won't be worthwhile to take training classes now etc, assuming that I would want to take them again before getting my permit to CCW in Florida.
    Training is always worthwhile. While you might not want to take the specific course for a CCW in Florida. A shooting class or a force on force class might be well worthwhile.
    Maybejim

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