Question about when it is considered appropriate to defend myself and to what degree. - Page 9
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Thread: Question about when it is considered appropriate to defend myself and to what degree.

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    I was incorrect, I do carry pepper spray. It's called Pepper Shot. 2 Million Scoville Heat Units? My boyfriend ordered it for me, I know how to use it, that's about it Well, and I know it's legal, I always look into that
    Good for you! Kudo's to your boyfriend.
    Maybejim

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    Mm hmm, agreed. But it's tough if you don't have the option of leaving, or if you kind of know the individual. All situations are different, but I agree, in general, the first no should be enough.

    Or, in my situation, use the little Sharkie
    If you don't have the option of leaving then it's called kidnapping.
    If you kind of know the individual it's called date rape or acquaintance rape.

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    Thank you, I appreciate that I will make sure to steer clear of falling prey to peer pressure when I head off to college

    Mm hmm, numbers tend to be the best option, unless they are all drinking and then I'm left responsible for all of them, that tends to place me in a worse situation then if I'm on my own

    I think a carry permit would be an excellent idea, but I still have quite a few years before I can make that decision, which is fine by me for the most part because it's a very big decision to make
    You are not responsible for any of them, only for yourself! Everyone else is responsible for themselves, including whether they choose to drink or not, or get drugged or not, or do what ever or not! They are not your responsibility!

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    I assure you, I'm not the bar hopping kind of girl. One, I don't drink at all, doesn't appeal to me, don't like the idea of being in a situation where I'm not able to make good, clear decisions. Second, it's just not my kind of scene, definitely not something I'm interested in! Past situations took place at night when I was at the barn where I board my horse, or at school, or at a gas station filling up my car. But all good points, it's more important to be safe then risk it for just having what may appear to be a good time. And it's something I do attempt to live by, I have no intentions of being in a bad siutation because I made a bad decision. I wanted advice for how to get out of a bad situation in case I come upon one, and I really appreciate everything you've suggested
    You can either come upon a bad situation or it can seek you out. And, you don't have to be in a bad place for a bad situation to happen. You can be at the gas station, the grocery store, in the barn, in church, anywhere! The bad situation does not care where it happens.

  6. #85
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    I'm a bit late in this thread. The problem is that the PA code is very difficult to research online because your State doesn't have it publicly available online. There was a castle doctrine bill in the last PA legislative session but it died.

    The other issue you deal with is there are over 50 sets of laws not only governing justifiable homicide but possession and ownership of firearms. What HK4U tells you about TX doesn't apply in PA. What I may tell you for NV isn't going to apply there either. What those of us who are familar with FL tell you is definitely not going to apply in PA as FL has a gold star stand your ground statute.

    There is a legal option to carry at 18 in PA through acquiring a ND or NH which issues 18 but if you're looking to go to FL you it won't work there as FL only allows persons 21 or over to carry even if their home state that's on the recognition or reciprocity list issues at 18. It will only be honored if you're 21 or over.

    While PA is a good CCW state, you're bordering two very anti-RKBA and self defense States; NJ and NY. If you frequent those States, do not take your firearm(s) there unless you want to be a product of their injudicial system.

    The abstract yardstick in virtually all States is you're justified in using lethal force if you are in reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury. It doesn't matter if you're effecting lethal force with a firearm, knife, your vehicle, a bat, a can of hair spray with a lighter, a rock, etc. You cannot be the aggressor or instigator of the event.

    As gf has pointed out, the legal hocus pocus is getting a jury to believe it you were in reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury. It's more difficult to prove such an event occurred outside of your home. It's pretty difficult to disprove an act of justifiable homicide when you used lethal force in self defense in your home and often times your own vehicle. The evidence is usually pretty clear with forced entry.

    Other issues you need to worry about if you're involved in any act of self defense which result in a justifiable homicide besides the criminal investigation or case;

    • Civil liability
      In many States you can be sued for personal injury or wrongful death by justifiable use of force in self defense. Since there is no castle doctrine in PA yet, it's reasonable to assume you can and will be sued for wrongful death or personal injury for lawful self defense in PA.
    • Post traumatic stress disorder.
      You'll go through many of the horrors that soldiers around the world go through. It's not uncommon for a person to develop some type of addition to deal with the stress. It happens to soldiers and LEOs during the course of their duties, don't think it won't happen to you. However I am a firm believer that with the proper support system you will be much better off than someone who was complacent and did not take their own personal security into their own hands. I'd take post traumatic stress disorder over an extended stay in a trauma unit, ICU or dealing with a sexually transmitted terminal disease any day. It's the lesser of the two evils.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by GabbyDP View Post
    I was sitting in my Law class a few weeks ago and the teacher mentioned that someone is only able to use physical force if their life is in immediate danger, for example, he said that an individual is not able to shoot someone if their car is being stolen. But I am a little bit confused when it comes to distinguishing between "your life being in immediate danger" and if someone has intentions of harming me (in my home, in a dark parking lot, wherever; I'm a female, you get where I'm going with this..) If I happened to be carrying concealed or open and I have a permit to do so, to what degree am I able to defend myself? Granted, I do not carry, but I would love to have a better understanding of how I could best handle the suggestion. If anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it :)
    tell your law professor to update his info, June 27, 2008 Castle Rock v. Gonzales the supreme court's decision states that you as an individual have no right for protection of the police, and that you can not sue a municipality for not providing you protection. in this case the victim and her 3 children where murdered by her estranged husband after the local court signed a writ of protection for the victim. The decision of the supreme court stated that QUOTE: "calling the police is not enough. You must also be ready to defend yourself and your property"


    I read this as what ever it takes to protect yourself

  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybejim View Post
    Good for you! Kudo's to your boyfriend.
    Mm hmm, he likes me to be as safe as possible for whenever he's not able to be with me
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdcleanfun View Post
    If you don't have the option of leaving then it's called kidnapping.
    If you kind of know the individual it's called date rape or acquaintance rape.
    The situation wasn't so much that the individual prevented me from leaving...it was more the fact that I was under 16 and couldn't drive and therefore didn't have a car with me so I didn't really have the option of leaving the situation. But they didn't physically prevent me from leaving..
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdcleanfun View Post
    You can either come upon a bad situation or it can seek you out. And, you don't have to be in a bad place for a bad situation to happen. You can be at the gas station, the grocery store, in the barn, in church, anywhere! The bad situation does not care where it happens.
    Mm hmm, agreed Things tend to happen where you would least expect it, but now I know better, I expect it all the time so I'm prepared
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by netentity View Post
    I'm a bit late in this thread. The problem is that the PA code is very difficult to research online because your State doesn't have it publicly available online. There was a castle doctrine bill in the last PA legislative session but it died.

    The other issue you deal with is there are over 50 sets of laws not only governing justifiable homicide but possession and ownership of firearms. What HK4U tells you about TX doesn't apply in PA. What I may tell you for NV isn't going to apply there either. What those of us who are familar with FL tell you is definitely not going to apply in PA as FL has a gold star stand your ground statute.

    There is a legal option to carry at 18 in PA through acquiring a ND or NH which issues 18 but if you're looking to go to FL you it won't work there as FL only allows persons 21 or over to carry even if their home state that's on the recognition or reciprocity list issues at 18. It will only be honored if you're 21 or over.

    While PA is a good CCW state, you're bordering two very anti-RKBA and self defense States; NJ and NY. If you frequent those States, do not take your firearm(s) there unless you want to be a product of their injudicial system.

    The abstract yardstick in virtually all States is you're justified in using lethal force if you are in reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury. It doesn't matter if you're effecting lethal force with a firearm, knife, your vehicle, a bat, a can of hair spray with a lighter, a rock, etc. You cannot be the aggressor or instigator of the event.

    As gf has pointed out, the legal hocus pocus is getting a jury to believe it you were in reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury. It's more difficult to prove such an event occurred outside of your home. It's pretty difficult to disprove an act of justifiable homicide when you used lethal force in self defense in your home and often times your own vehicle. The evidence is usually pretty clear with forced entry.

    Other issues you need to worry about if you're involved in any act of self defense which result in a justifiable homicide besides the criminal investigation or case;

    • Civil liability
      In many States you can be sued for personal injury or wrongful death by justifiable use of force in self defense. Since there is no castle doctrine in PA yet, it's reasonable to assume you can and will be sued for wrongful death or personal injury for lawful self defense in PA.
    • Post traumatic stress disorder.
      You'll go through many of the horrors that soldiers around the world go through. It's not uncommon for a person to develop some type of addition to deal with the stress. It happens to soldiers and LEOs during the course of their duties, don't think it won't happen to you. However I am a firm believer that with the proper support system you will be much better off than someone who was complacent and did not take their own personal security into their own hands. I'd take post traumatic stress disorder over an extended stay in a trauma unit, ICU or dealing with a sexually transmitted terminal disease any day. It's the lesser of the two evils.
    Thank you for you input! Very much appreciated
    So I am able to carry in PA at the age of 18? Can you explain what an ND or NH means? As far as entering into NJ and NY it is not a concern, I have only been to NJ once in my life, definitely something that I need to be aware of though so thank you for letting me know.

    Can you further explain the civil issues, particularly about a "castle doctrine"?

    Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a huge concern, and I have considered many times what my feelings would be if the situation arose where I had to defend myself. But I think, just my general feeling about it, is that I will be able to sort through that 'even though I may have injured someone, it obviously only happened because I was preventing someone from injuring me'. And I think living in fear, unable to defend myself or protect myself would also have extreme repercusions.
    I'm secure enough in my self-esteem that I know I cannot handle a 150-pound guy coming at me, but I can handle a firearm to keep that man away from me. -- Maria Heil

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