OMG - Gun Safety? - Run don't Walk!
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Thread: OMG - Gun Safety? - Run don't Walk!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Sunny South Florida
    Posts
    486

    OMG - Gun Safety? - Run don't Walk!

    It's been about three weeks since my spaking new replacement P-3AT came from Kel-Tec and I have not had time to get to the range to put some ammo downrange to check her out, so this morning I had a free hour or so and decided to give it a break in. I took it to one of the local ranges, which has a nice indoor pistol range with about a dozen shooting stalls but normally is very quite on Friday mornings. I bought a 100 rounds of range .380 (which this range requires you use their ammo and use it up during the session - no returns with leftover ammo) and went into the range.

    Now this has been a sort of "self policed" range for years with no range master hoovering and telling you what to do, a factor I have actually always liked.

    Upon entering I noticed their were three other shooters. The fact that the only equipment on the set-up table was three brand new gun boxes should have been a hint. I went to a stall, hung a target (really just for effect, I was more concerned with did it go bang and did it feed or did it jam. It functioned flawlessly BTW). I loaded up my three magazines with six shells each and fired them downrange. When I stopped to reload I happened to glance back at the set-up table and nearly dropped to the floor.

    Now I note, this is my second P-3AT and I also have an LCP so I know these guns well. Standing in front of one of the new gun boxes at the set-up table is a guy, maybe mid forties with a brand new P-3AT in his hand backwards. The top of the gun is in his palm, his thumb is INSIDE THE TRIGGER GUARD, facing the guard at this moment. From my position a few stalls away I could see the magazine was still in the gun and the slide was back about 1/4" from battery ... HELL, that is the standard P-3AT Jam. This idiot has a live round 1/4" from battery and is waving the gun around everywhere trying to figure out what to do. First I watched as the barrel waved past my direction which is when I nearly hit the ground then I watched with amazement as with his finger now ON THE TRIGGER, he began to look down the barrel to see what might be wrong!

    I waited until the barrel was pointed at the ceiling and with both hands raised ran over and said STOP... Don't do that, your gonna kill someone or yourself! He looked at me like I was the crazy one. I slowly took the weapon from him and with it pointed at the floor moved carefully back to his stall, aimed the weapon downrange and half-racked the slide placing it into full battery and fired off the round, much to his surprise. Then I removed the magazine and unchambered the next round and tried hard to explain all the signs around that said don't remove a gun from the firing line for jams or to reload, and never remove a loaded gun from the firing line and that if you have a jam you don't understand, lay the gun at the firing line, exit and request help. I also tried to give him the one minute gun safety course ... it's always loaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to kill, etc. And I explained what the jam he was getting was and how to fix it.

    I'm not sure if he got the message but I returned to my stall and shot the remainder of my ammo (rather quickly I might add) and decided to leave refinement for another day. I went to the outside area and explained to the shop owner while I was settling up and he said yeah, he will likely have to add an "on-line" range master with all the new guys coming in, even though it will be aggrevating for the old-timers. As we were talking the guy from the stall next to my original freind was putting a red-dot scope on a .22 target pistol. We watched on the video monitor as he put a fresh magazine in, racked the slide and fired two shots then proceeded to take the now loaded and cocked gun back the set-up table with no regard for where it was pointing and started making adjustments to the sight with an allen wrench.

    That was when the owner shrugged and said, "gotta go, see ya sometime" and rushed into the range area.

    My hope is that these incidents will make them crack down a bit because I am certain that if these two were happening simultaneously they are happening everywhere all the time these days.

    It is up to us to stress gun safety to everyone because it will only take one or two accidents to give the anti's all the ammo they need to take ours.

    I will not penalize the range yet, and I will go back there to shoot ... primarily because I am usually alone in the range at the times I go... but if newbies are in the range I will be a lot more careful to assess the circumstances next time before I decide if I am going to stay.

  2.   
  3. #2
    They make you use their ammo in your gun!? I hope the price is reasonable. Our indoor range makes you use their ammo if you rent their gun... the ammo is $26/box for .40SW! But I can shoot anything I want through my gun.

    Good job on your part for getting involved. Glad it turned out safely. That's scary.
    SC CWP
    NH non-res CWP
    NRA Member

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Sunny South Florida
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    All the ranges here have the "their" ammo policy in all weapons. They claim it is due to insurance liability and mandated by their insurance company. Of course the real and obvious reason is profit.

    Their pricing is mid-line. I can get ammo cheaper at gun shows and sometimes a Wallyworld (if I can get ammo at all). But usually they are pretty much in line with Wally for range ammo.

    The, you can't purchase it from them and then bring it back later rule is new and I wonder how that is going to play in the long run.

  5. #4
    wow glad you talked with that guy before he shot himself or some one else.
    You can have my freedom as soon as I'm done with it!!!

  6. #5
    Sounds like there's no required safety course in Florida to own a hand gun huh?

    I'd say that range is an accident waiting to happen. Hope they have liability insurance and know a good lawyer. Anyone does something stupid like that at any club I've ever been in, you're gone.
    You can run... but you'll just die tired. 3%

  7. #6
    Join Date
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    Sunny South Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldOwl View Post
    Sounds like there's no required safety course in Florida to own a hand gun huh?
    That would be correct, the first time a course is required is for a carry permit.

    Unfortunately, as much as I hate that there are these idiots out there, I feel it is the responsibility of those selling them the gun to at least talk the basics. I would really HATE to recommend MORE government regulation in any way... PERIOD!

  8. I'm kind of torn up about this as well. I really don't think the government should be involved, especially the Feds, but I really wish people would get more training, and I reallty think first time buyers should have to take a safety course..........maybe have the state require a (NRA, etc, not a govmnt run) safety course cert before you can buy your first gun, or something similar.
    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #8
    I thought you'd like this. My buddy who is also an NRA safety instructor emailed this letter to me today. It's not from our gun club. I think he must have gotten the job installing cameras.



    Special Note on IDR Safety- or
    lack thereof*

    <<<<<<<<<<<< ALL SHOOTERS USING
    THE IDR >>>>>>>>>>>

    During the work party this past weekend_ too many holes were found in
    the ceiling tiles and side panels. Some penetrated the duct-work
    ventilation_ apparatus in several locations close to mid-range and even
    closer to the shooting line. *This is unacceptable and represents
    laziness, or total lack of personal firearms safety by some of our
    members.* There is no reason whatsoever this should be happening. There
    were also many holes found in the side-panels of which the angles
    suggested firing "cross-range". AGAIN, UNACCEPTABLE. If ANY MBSC member
    is caught doing this henceforth, disciplinary action will be taken
    including suspension from the IDR. All holes were either a 40 or 45
    caliber. We will be monitoring on a daily basis by cross checking
    keyfob entries matching them to the sign-in register in the IDR.

    Please, if you can't shoot any better than that or are new students of
    instructors using the range for certification, PLEASE USE THE OUTSIDE
    RANGES UNTIL YOU CAN HIT THE SIDE OF A BARN! The club will be looking
    into cameras and a DVR soon. *_Holes will be patched and the sign-in
    book will be monitored to see WHO uses the range when and what caliber
    you're firing. If you receive a call from one of the range officers
    don't be surprised because this HAS to be nipped in the bud! _* We have
    to crack down unfortunately. There is too much damage being done by
    careless users and someone is going to get seriously hurt, not to
    mention the expense of repairing the duct-work!

    *We need to maintain a safe shooting environment at all times.* If the
    situation does not improve immediately I am going to recommend the club
    close the IDR except for league shoots until members take a MANDATORY
    'CLUB SPONSORED' refresher course in firearms safety, $25.00 per
    person.* All proceeds go to the club to MAKE REPAIRS!!! *
    You can run... but you'll just die tired. 3%

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Honolulu, HI & Salt Lake City, UT
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    2,797
    Quote Originally Posted by OldOwl View Post
    Sounds like there's no required safety course in Florida to own a hand gun huh?

    I'd say that range is an accident waiting to happen. Hope they have liability insurance and know a good lawyer. Anyone does something stupid like that at any club I've ever been in, you're gone.

    A handgun course is required to acquire a handgun here in the PRHI, but you still see a lot of "unsafe" stuff happening.

    A safety course works only if people CHOOSE to follow safe gun handling rules and others LET THEM KNOW when they're doing something unsafe. I've stopped my shooting and tactfully "educated" many folks on various ranges of "unsafe acts" only to get extremely negative responses like "F**K YOU!" or "Don't tell me what to do, I KNOW I'm being safe." I witnessed one guy firing a Desert Eagle (.50AE) in NV who had his thumbs crossed behind the slide I kindly warned him that this practice could result in serious injury. After a bunch of hostile words from this man, I decided to allow him to learn via "hands on" experience. After his first shot, he dropped the gun on the bench (probably still had several rounds in the mag) and shook his left hand. There was visible blood on his thumb. He looked at me and said "see, I didn't get hurt". I told him "next one might hurt a little more." Sure enough, next shot caused the slide to break his left thumb! He dropped the gun on the ground and was screaming his head off like a little baby. I stopped my shooting (no need to call "cease fire" only two of us on the firing line), cleared my firearm and walked over to assist. He was hopping around crying and yelling at me. I attempted to calm him down while calling 911 on my cell phone. The gun store personnel came in as I was talking to the guy and helped calm him down as well. The ambulance got to the shop pretty quick and patched the guy up. What got me laughing the most was when he demanded that the store refund his range fee and ammo cost! Once the guy left, the range manager offered me his unused ammo and let me shoot it up. I enjoyed the experience. Who said "A good deed goes unnoticed"??



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado / Colorado
    Posts
    246
    As an instructor, I see this constantly, even AFTER a safety course. I have had people asked off the range for it. I really don't want to be shot again (yes, I did type AGAIN). If one of my students does it, they're gone- no refund.
    I see stupid things like this video:
    YouTube - Glock Accident
    and cringe. It's NOT funny. Don't be shy about approaching a range safety officer.

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