Kentucky Pastor tells flock, "Piece be with you"
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Thread: Kentucky Pastor tells flock, "Piece be with you"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Kentucky Pastor tells flock, "Piece be with you"

    I'll make sure to visit this church if I ever visit Kentucky!

    Gun-loving pastor to his flock: Piece be with you - Yahoo! News

    LOUISVILLE, Ky. A Kentucky pastor is inviting his flock to bring guns to church to celebrate the Fourth of July and the Second Amendment.

    New Bethel Church is welcoming "responsible handgun owners" to wear their firearms inside the church June 27, a Saturday. An ad says there will be a handgun raffle, patriotic music and information on gun safety.

    "We're just going to celebrate the upcoming theme of the birth of our nation," said pastor Ken Pagano. "And we're not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms without that this country wouldn't be here."

    The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door, Pagano said.

    He said recent church shootings, including the killing Sunday of a late-term abortion provider in Kansas, which he condemned, highlight the need to promote safe gun ownership. The New Bethel Church event was planned months before Dr. George Tiller was shot to death in a Wichita church.

    Kentucky allows residents to openly carry guns in public with some restrictions. Gun owners carrying concealed weapons must have state-issued permits and can't take them to schools, jails or bars, among other exceptions.

    Pagano's Protestant church, which attracts up to 150 people to Sunday services, is a member of the Assemblies of God. The former Marine and handgun instructor said he expected some backlash, but has heard only a "little bit" of criticism of the gun event.

    John Phillips, an Arkansas pastor who was shot twice while leading a service at his former church in 1986, said a house of worship is no place for firearms.

    "A church is designated as a safe haven, it's a place of worship," said Phillips, who was shot by a church member's relative for an unknown reason and still has a bullet lodged in his spine. "It is unconscionable to me to think that a church would be a place that you would even want to bring a weapon."

    Phillips spoke out against a bill before the Arkansas General Assembly that would have permitted the carrying of guns in that state's churches. The bill failed in February.

    Pagano, 50, said some members of his church were concerned that President Obama's administration could restrict gun ownership, and they supported the plan for the event when Pagano asked their opinion.

    Marian McClure Taylor, executive director of the Kentucky Council of Churches, an umbrella organization for 11 Christian denominations in Kentucky, said Christian churches are promoters of peace, but "most allow for arms to be taken up under certain conditions."

    Taylor said Pagano assured her the event would focus on promoting responsible gun ownership and any proceeds would go to charity.

    "Those two commitments are consistent with the high value the Assemblies of God churches place on human life," she said in an e-mail message.

    Pagano is encouraging church members to bring a canned good and a friend to the event. He said guns must be unloaded for insurance purposes and safety reasons.

    He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible.

    "Firearms can be evil and they can be useful," he said. "We're just trying to promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety."
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008


    "The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door, Pagano said."

    That is not promoting safe gun ownership. There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner oc'ing or cc'ing an unloaded gun. That's stupid gun ownership. That's how to get yourself shot. That's how not be able to defend yourself.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Say what???

    "Firearms can be evil and they can be useful," [Pagano] said.

    Firearms can be evil? Say what? Someone needs to set this guy straight! Only Stephen King can turn inanimate objects into evil ones. Watch "Christine" sometime, but not on date night!

  5. #4
    I am glad he took the stand he did but I also agree about the unloaded issue and the statement he made about the gun could be evil. Guns are not evil but they can be "used" for evil. So can your car or anything else. As far as pastor John Phillips all I can say is he must be living in a fairy tale world. Come to my church if you want to be able to carry to protect youself. Our pastor has not lost touch with reality.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Sun Valley, ID
    Even though I am not the religous type, I thought this was a good thing until I saw that they had to be unloaded. That seems to defeat the purpose to me, unless it is meant to be symbolic. Then again, symbolic defeats the purpose too.

  7. I question whether churches are appropriate forums for a focus on guns per se, because as I see it that sort of "partnership" so to speak can become political very quickly. And we all know that there's no political consensus on either religion or guns (although the First and Second Amendments need to be as strong as possible). It would certainly be appropriate to have forums on protecting one's family during uncertain times, but guns in the church (at least advertised as being there) are a little much. I think pastors should be allowed to carry in the pulpit if they worry about their personal safety, but I don't think a service centered around guns and gun use is appropriate in a church. And for the record, I'm a heat-packing evangelical minister (although I don't carry at church).

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Southern New Hampshire
    I'll make this short and sweet........agreed with everything said here.
    (All the above are MY opinions/suggestions ONLY....AND, I like to bust ball's, it's called having a sense of humor. In other words, no intent to offend anyone, so get over it)

  9. #8
    at least he is taking a stand... although an unloaded gun is just a paperweight.
    You can have my freedom as soon as I'm done with it!!!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Sunny South Florida
    I dropped the Pastor the following email:

    Dear Pastor Pagano,

    It was reported that your church is having a "bring your gun to church" day on Sat June 27. It was also reported that all guns must be unloaded and that private security will be present to assure that. Additionally you are quoted as having said, "Firearms can be evil and they can be useful..."

    Please Pastor Pagano, as a firm supporter of the right to bear arms, and a permitted carrier of a concealed firearm it is of most importance that the right of self defense be portrayed in the manner of responsibility and respect that it deserves. First of all, firearms are never evil, unless you believe that objects can be evil which would counter nearly all religion. Certainly evil people have used firearms in malicious ways, however, it is the person that may be evil not the firearm. The often heard statement ... guns don't kill people, people kill people is a true statement. No gun has ever "risen up and killed" anyone, it has always been in the hands of an irresponsible person.

    Although your "demonstration" on the surface appears to support the right of self-defense, each and every person possessing an unloaded firearm in your church that day is defenseless. An unloaded gun is a paperweight, nothing more.

    I strongly admire your purpose to show "responsible gun ownership and gun safety", but of far more importance is the realization that, in these unfortunate times, the carrying of a weapon can mean the difference between life and death, yours and others, and all too often. Unfortunately taking guns from responsible citizens only leaves them unprotected from the criminals, who simply do not care and are fully ready to prey on me, you or your congregation as innocent victims. God says "You shall not murder", but God does not say You shall not defend.

    Recently you can read story after story with two main subject threads. The vast majority about how an innocent victim loses their life to a preying criminal. Gun control cannot help because it is already illegal for these criminals to own, carry or use a firearm as well as it is illegal to be committing the crime they are committing including murder. Yet there are those who belive that simply adding another layer of laws will make us safer ... IT WILL NOT!

    But now a second story thread is beginning to appear. Those where when attacked by the preying criminal the victim was prepared and using the tools at hand, stopped the attack, sometimes at the cost of the life of the perpetrator, but therein saving their own lives, those of their loved ones, and others. If only one person was carrying a concealed weapon and had the opportunity to use it during any of the unfortunate "massacrers" of recent times, perhaps the body count could have be lowered substantially.

    Please go on with your planned event, except welcome those who are trained and permitted to carry a weapon to keep that weapon loaded in the responsible manner they have been trained therein providing protection to themselves and every other person in that church, including you. And don't make it a one day event, make your church an example by welcoming trained and permitted weapons every day therein making the statement ... this is a NO SLAUGHTER ZONE.

    Thank you for caring, however, please take the steps to make certain that caring translates to protection. Indeed firearms can be DANGEROUS (not evil) in the hands of criminals or in the hands of those lacking the proper training. The movement in this country is NOT favoring blind possession and use of firearms, it is favoring intense training and responsibility in the use of firearms. Most person possessing a concealed weapons permit and carrying a weapon in this country TODAY have spent more class time, more range time, and more ongoing evaluation in the usage of weapons than the best training given to Law Enforcement. If one today rates who should be restricted from carrying weapons because of limited amounts of training ... it would be most police officers. The average department in the US only requires an officer to fire a minimum amount of rounds TWICE A YEAR. The average permit holder practices with their weapons at least once per month.

    Permit holders are well trained to realize that it is not a license to kill (something not recognized many times by police officer training) but that the goal is to stop the threat, protect yourself and those around you, and not to aggravate a situation or pursue a bad guy.

    I was influenced to write this email today because the news article was re-posted on a discussion board of supporters of the right to self defense. I welcome you to come join the board and see the responsible dialog that goes on between those who have taken it upon themselves to protect themselves and others by obtaining the responsible level of training and legal permitting to fully understand the usage of firearms in the defensive stance of todays world. I hope you too will understand even more.

    Thank you for your time.

  11. #10
    The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door
    Attention all bad guys. If you're looking to score a few firearms with little or no personal risk, be at the New Bethel Church on June 27th. Church members (victims) will be armed but unloaded. Firearms are being inspected before being allowed into the building. Like taking candy from a baby.

    2beararms, nice letter to the pastor. Very well written.
    "When the outflow exceeds the inflow, the upkeep becomes the downfall"

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