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Thread: Shooting at mall

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabywk View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html
    ===============================================

    The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.

    A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who havenít heard about this tragedy.

    But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

    Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didnít one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?

    Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.

    The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.

    Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."

    There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.

    When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media havenít started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.

    Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isnít it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isnít it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?

    Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.

    No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.

    Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.

    People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.

    All these attacks ó indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed ó happened in gun-free zones.

    In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.

    The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

    The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.

    Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.
    +1 Very good read!

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  3. #22
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    Here is what the FBI think about mall security:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mal...ity/index.html

    This comment says it all!
    "Should these private security guards be armed? "Absolutely not," said Greene. Greene said if a security officer were to pull a gun on an armed individual in a mall, it could result in "the gunfight at the 'OK corral,' and then we might have 23 people killed instead of eight."

    Are you kidding me??

  4. #23

    Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by JC40 View Post
    Unfortunately you will probably never see the news report that the mall is a "gun free zone" ,and the anti gun people will have a field day with this of course leaving out relavent facts to the story.It is too bad that there wasn`t anyone there that could have possibly stopped this person before he killed so many,but this is the time of the year when the nut jobs come out of the woodwork and unfortunately don`t discriminate who they take with them on their death wish.As was stated a bunch of times before.This is one of the reasons i carry all the time because you just never know and there is no safe place.Prayers go out to the familys.

    Most media will not report the facts but at least Fox did.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  5. #24
    Subject: More Blood on Hands of 'Gun Free Zones' Extremists at Omaha Mall, Says CCRKBA
    Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:39:56 -0800


    NEWS RELEASE
    MORE BLOOD ON HANDS OF 'GUN FREE ZONES' EXTREMISTS AT OMAHA MALL, SAYS CCRKBA
    BELLEVUE, WA – Eight more innocent Americans have been sacrificed on the altar of political correctness at Omaha’s Westroads Mall this week, and the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said today that the real outrage of this crime is that it happened in a “gun free zone” where law-abiding private citizens are disarmed by mall rules and state statute.

    “In the wake of this horrible crime,” said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb, “gun control extremists are already demanding more useless gun control legislation. A prohibition on firearms at Westroads Mall did not stop Robert Hawkins, but it did give him a risk-free environment in which to unleash his rampage.”

    Gottlieb, co-author of the recently released America Fights Back: Armed Self-defense In A Violent Age, said the common link between virtually every mass shooting in recent history in this country is that they all happened in so-called “gun-free zones” such as shopping malls and college campuses. He and co-author Dave Workman detail the colossal failure of this “Gun Free Folly” in their new book.

    “What happened at the Westroads Mall can happen anywhere that political hysteria results in victim disarmament,” Gottlieb stated. “Blaming firearms for this crime is like blaming cars for drunk driving. The argument doesn’t wash. Published reports all suggest that Hawkins was troubled and had emotional problems, and he reportedly had a felony drug conviction on his record which prohibited him from owning firearms. This proves that restrictive gun laws do not prevent determined perpetrators from getting their hands on guns, but they do prevent law-abiding citizens from having the tools to defend themselves.

    “Remember that a similar shooting at Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square earlier this year was interrupted by an armed, off-duty police officer from another city,” Gottlieb said. “In essence, that man was an armed private citizen. In Tacoma, Washington two years ago, an armed citizen confronted a gunman at the Tacoma Mall and although he was seriously wounded, his intervention brought the shooting to a halt.

    “Gun owners, the gun industry, nor our constitutionally-protected individual right to keep and bear arms are at fault for the Westroads outrage,” he said, “and the gun control lobby knows it. Restrictive laws that disarm honest citizens and provide risk-free environments for criminals and lunatics are at fault, and so are the people responsible for passing such laws and enforcing such prohibitions.

    -END
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  6. question....

    The mall shooting.
    If there was someone in the mall who chose to disregaurd the "no guns allowed" sign and was able to stop the shooter, when he is taken before a court, do you think the state issue permit would trump the mall hung sign?
    If it was really contested, do you think he would win? The current political climate says "no" to me, but put that aside for sake of this discussion.
    What do you think?

  7. #26
    I would guess the verdict would be not guilty or at least a hung jury. They would have to move the trial to the west end of the state to get a jury that didn't know someone in the mall when it happened or already have their mind made up. The people in the sparsely populated and policed west end of the state would be more favorably toward carrying.

  8. #27

    Additional information

    More information is coming out regarding the tactical situation and the background of the shooter. Stay informed if you are going to try and discuss it on an open forum.

    The first link presents a more coherent picture of the event; Note he was not shooting down on people from the balcony, but appears to have been inside the large department store on the third floor of the mall. Most of the fatalities were employees of the store.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mal...911/index.html

    Mental instability background of the shooter.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/oma...ing/index.html
    Reality, DEAL with IT!

  9. #28
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    One of the local radio stations has ben playing the 911 calls from the mall where the shooting happened.They are pretty chilling to listen too.You can actually hear the gunshots from the shooter as the people talk to the 911 dispatcher.

  10. #29
    Good information guys, thanks for posting it.
    David

    The only person available to protect you 24 hours a day is you.

  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by KimberPB View Post
    Here is what the FBI think about mall security:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mal...ity/index.html

    This comment says it all!
    "Should these private security guards be armed? "Absolutely not," said Greene. Greene said if a security officer were to pull a gun on an armed individual in a mall, it could result in "the gunfight at the 'OK corral,' and then we might have 23 people killed instead of eight."

    Are you kidding me??
    The sheep see the gun as the problem. 1 gun = problem

    2 guns = really big problem.


    There are none so blind as he who WILL not see.

    Tarzan
    1 Timothy 5:8

    "But if any aprovide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

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