laser sights ???????????????? - Page 3

View Poll Results: laser sights for your personal cc gun ????????????

Voters
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  • yes I use laser sights on my cc gun

    22 17.89%
  • No I do not use laser sights on my cc gun

    64 52.03%
  • Yes I do and would recomend them to others to use on there cc gun

    23 18.70%
  • No I do not and would not recomend someone to use them on there cc gun

    14 11.38%
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Thread: laser sights ????????????????

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Paw Paw, MI
    Posts
    126
    I always viewed them as a novelty until I held a friend's XD with Crimson Trace. The practicality of them escaped me until I literally had the gun in-hand and put the dot on what I wanted to hit....FROM THE HIP. It wasn't until then that I "saw the light". I just got an XD that I'll be carrying full-time and it won't be more than a couple weeks before it's "crimson'd up". +1 for lasers. Also getting one for the wife's .38 snubbie.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Oregon's hot box
    Posts
    94
    I have no intention of putting one on my EDC. Most situations are reduced to point shooting, and if I have more time, iron sights are fine.

    I am considering one for my HD gun. Low-light acquisition and assurance for my wife...
    "Life is a great teacher. Unfortunately, it kills all of its students..."

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Paw Paw, MI
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    I have no intention of putting one on my EDC. Most situations are reduced to point shooting, and if I have more time, iron sights are fine.

    I am considering one for my HD gun. Low-light acquisition and assurance for my wife...
    I agree with you that most situations are reduced to a point-n-shoot tactic. I figure that having the laser might be an advantage in some conditions, while not hindering any more normal-type shooting if those conditions aren't present. So, yes, you probably don't need laser, but it'll be there if there's ever a call for it.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bonneau & Goose Creek, SC
    Posts
    443
    I've watched people at the range concentrate so hard on keeping their lasers still, it took away their focus. When they had to rapid fire, draw, point and shoot, they developed a habit focusing on the laser instead of the target. I thought there is more than enough time in SC CWP Range Qualification Test.

    I asked someone else about laser's who had it on their practice pistol but not their CCW. One reason that struck me was in a point and shoot case, they didn't want to know where the bullet may hit (kill/disable). They didn't want the opportunity or chance that they will second guess themselves. Made sense to me.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Paw Paw, MI
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    126
    Quote Originally Posted by melloyello View Post
    I've watched people at the range concentrate so hard on keeping their lasers still, it took away their focus. When they had to rapid fire, draw, point and shoot, they developed a habit focusing on the laser instead of the target. I thought there is more than enough time in SC CWP Range Qualification Test.

    I asked someone else about laser's who had it on their practice pistol but not their CCW. One reason that struck me was in a point and shoot case, they didn't want to know where the bullet may hit (kill/disable). They didn't want the opportunity or chance that they will second guess themselves. Made sense to me.
    That does bring up a couple good issues. I'd say that for at least 80% of my practicing I wouldn't want the laser activated. I'd go ahead and flip the master switch off. I don't want to fall into a habit of relying on it. I can see how transferring your focus from the target to the dot would be easy to do. As far as people concentrating on keeping the laser dot still, I think that could be both a (+) and a (-). On the (-) side, you do want their focus where it should be and not on the dot. Just because there's a dot on it doesn't mean that's necessarily where the round is going to go. On the (+) side, it could be a good training tool for 1) proves to anyone that they're not going to make a headshot at 75yds., 2) visibly shows a shooter just how tiny a movement will greatly impact shot placement (which I guess, is the same thing as the long headshot I mentioned), and 3) if the dot's in one place and the hole in another, work on trigger squeeze or breath control or grip... Hell, the more I think about it, the more I think it'd be more benficial as a training tool than as defense enhancement.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bonneau & Goose Creek, SC
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    443
    Quote Originally Posted by hopnpop View Post
    Hell, the more I think about it, the more I think it'd be more benficial as a training tool than as defense enhancement.
    I was thinking the same thing myself. It would be good training tool to gain the control, steadiness and breathing.

  8. #27
    I use the Crimson Trace on my carry gun.

    The advantages out weigh any percieved disadvantages.

    Laser sighting devices are not meant to be held still till you focus the sight and then drop the hammer on your bad guy. They are to be used as a secondary sighting system only. If your dissoriented from a blow to the head and your down on the ground, putting red dot on COM of the bad guy is going to give you an aiming reference when you othewise probably can't concentrate on standard sights or you are restricted from referencing your iron sights, such as having to shoot from the ground without the capability of having your pistol in a two handed grip, fully extended with iron sights and a full sight radius as used on the fireing line and at paper targets. . Think "point shooting" when your incapable of being on your feet, at the ready, with both arms extended. Think about it.

    I've used IR lasers in the military with NV and their is no substitute to owning the night.

    There are some pretty good articles on the proper use of visible lasers from various experts if you look hard enough on the web.

    For example, here is Larry Vickers take on the CTC Laser grips. Larry Vickers has spent the majority of his life in the Special Operations side of the U.S. Army. Most of his operational time was 1st/SFOD-D (Delta)

    Crimson Trace Laser Grip by Larry Vickers.

    some of you will quit reading right now expecting this to be a “puff piece” talking about how great they are and not admitting any downside. Those of you in that category certainly don’t know me very well. The following is the reality of visible lasers & CTC Lasergrips according to Larry Vickers with no punches pulled.

    I used to think, like many others, that pistol lasers were a joke. Fortunately for me I have not had to eat as much crow over this topic as my good friend Ken Hackathorn but I have eaten my fair share. After giving them an honest assessment here is what it really boils down to: a laser on a pistol offers much the same advantages as red dot reflex sights on a carbine or SMG. Under stress shooting scenarios they make shooting a handgun a much easier task; they are a very useful tool in the toolbox.

    I highlight CTC lasers in my night fire portion of my handgun instruction along with night sights and white light principles and techniques. At night and in conditions of limited visibility they are nothing short of awesome; they make accurate handgun shooting easier than any other sighting system currently on the market. Don’t get me wrong, night sights and white light have their place but a visible laser at night rules. Period. Anyone who has had one of my classes or been taught by Ken Hackathorn can attest to that. They dramatically improve the shooters ability to get accurate hits at night. Of course like anything else visible lasers have pros and cons and we will highlight those in detail.

    1) Where and when to use lasers - a rule of thumb is any time you have any degree of difficulty seeing your pistol sights then a visible laser will be an advantage. For instance coming into a building from outside even during the day the laser will be of value indoors. Out in bright daylight I prefer my iron sights and find the laser a bit of a distraction. Anytime you combine low or reduced visibility with shooting on the move or unconventional shooting positions the laser is a distinct advantage. Police have found that visible lasers to be a distinct advantage while using a shield; that would fall into the unconventional shooting position category mentioned above. They are also excellent training aids for watching shooter trigger control as any movement during the trigger squeeze will show up on target. When first using the laser shooters will try and eliminate all movement and early on this can cause shooters snatching or jerking the trigger. Once you learn to accept your wobble zone (which is now more visible due to the visible laser on target) then fast and accurate shooting comes more naturally. Once mastered you can shoot faster and more accurate under low light conditions than you ever could with regular pistol sights or even night sights for that matter.

    2) Special Considerations with lasers - As a battery operated device occasionally they will need new batteries. Crimson Trace advertises a 4 hour continuous run time on their laser grips. That is sufficient for most use as I can attest; I have not had to change any batteries to date. Oil, solvents, water and dust can all play a part in making the visible laser less than 100% functional. Because of this they do occasionally need maintenance and cleaning. I know that is a shocker to many but it is probably a good idea once in awhile to make sure your pistol is properly cleaned, lubricated, and maintained. That would include your visible laser aiming device. I am a believer in having your laser separate from your white light for a couple reasons. You will always have an enhanced night fighting capability even when your white light is removed and you can have serious issues with retaining zero depending on the light/laser mounting system. For these reasons and others I prefer Crimson Trace Lasergrips over accessory rail mounted light/laser units. One downside is CTC does not make Lasergrips for every service pistol on the market so depending on your gun you may not have an option.

    3) Durability and reliability - CTC has sold thousands of M9 Beretta Laser Grips to the US Military. They have been received with overwhelming positive feedback. Remember the M9 does not even have night sights so the Lasergrips add a low light capability that simply did not exist before. This is a huge advantage and many of the troops appreciate it. The visible laser is also very useful for crowd control as the “red dot” seems to cross all language and cultural barriers. As we know combat is the ultimate test bed and CTC has taken lessons learned in the sandbox and is moving forward with a true milspec M9 Lasergrip: water and dust proof. It is being developed as this is written so it is too soon to project a date when they will be available.

    My personal favorite CTC Lasergrips are the S&W J frame versions (every J frame on the planet should have them; it is nothing short of a revolutionary shooting aid on that gun), the model 401 M1911 version, and the M9 Beretta Lasergrips. I use and endorse all three of these. That is not to say these are the only ones worth using just that they are my favorites. Another little trick is to send the plastic Lasergrips to David Bowie (not the singer) at www.bowietacticalconcepts.com for his superb stippling. This makes them less slippery and because of the way Dave stipples them it actually enhances the appearance of the grips. I was the first to start this trend with David and I would not use a set without it. Highly recommended.

    I will close this by saying if you have not tried a visible laser you should. Especially if CTC makes a pair of Lasergrips for your favorite blaster. Remember they are meant to augment the standard pistol sights, not replace them. They are simply another tool in the tool box.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    "When a government robs Peter to pay Paul it will alway's have the support of Paul" George Bernard Shaw

  9. #28
    I just put a set of CT on my S&W 640 since I could not resist the NRA Instructor discount they offer. Took them to the range this past weekend to sight in and test. At combat distances in bright Hawaii sun light I could see the red dot just fine on the target. Fired about 50 rounds just using the red dot (no sights) and found that after a few rounds I could put all the rounds in center mass even during rapid fire strings.

    If you don't already have good handgun skills, this will not help you become a master. If you can already shoot, then these are excellent for low light use to snap shoot (no sights). The other thing I like about CT is that your trigger finger can cover the laser in the finger out of the trigger position so as to not give your position away while searching, when you go for the trigger the laser is now on the target.

    And if you are getting older and don't see as well, then yes this is a big plus for low light shooting.

    Great review by Ropadope above BTW while I was posting this - he's dead on concerning use of CT on J frames.

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by usmc guy View Post

    And if you are getting older and don't see as well, then yes this is a big plus for low light shooting.

    Great review by Ropadope above BTW while I was posting this - he's dead on concerning use of CT on J frames.
    Thanks USMC Guy.

    Eyesight is also something I have trouble with, particularly the right eye. I'm dominate in that eye and right handed when shooting rifles and other long guns. After losing my right eye sight to uviatis I considered the purchase of a laser to mount on the HD shotgun, which is a Benelli M1 Super 90. I have Surefire White light available already installed, but using the ghost ring sights is almost impossible. A Surefie visible laser was rec'd to me for this conundrum. That or either learn to shoot left handed with the shotgun. Thus far it appears just the ticket for my HD visual deficit needs.

    I currently carry a Sig P228 9mm Luger with CTC laser grips and would not leave the house without them. Just make sure your battery is up to snuff. I replace mine periodically just to be stay safe.

    I'm glad that you have seen the light with CTC laser grips. (no pun intended/well maybe)
    "When a government robs Peter to pay Paul it will alway's have the support of Paul" George Bernard Shaw

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