I reload for practice and competition but... - Page 2
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Thread: I reload for practice and competition but...

  1. #11
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    Doc, I've rethought about carrying reloads since my post back in March. Like I said before there is no case out there involving the use of reloads. Like you said, deadly force is deadly force, and nothing will ever change that. The benefit of carrying reloads is you can develop the perfect round for a carry firearm. Lets face it factory ammo is just a generic load. Every weapon performs differently with different loads. A factory load could be too much for some firearms which will decrease performance, stability and accuracy. I think I'm going to break out the old Chronograph and targets then start developing carry rounds for a few of my CC firearms.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

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  3. #12
    Right , Red hat. Just be careful. I recently bulged a chamber on my beloved pre model 29 Smith and Wewsson with a double charge of unique. I was learning to use a progressive loader, and apparently "short stroked" the darn thing. Firat time in over twenty five years of reloading that I ever had a mishap.

    I really like handloads especially in .45 acp, 44 mag/special in revolvers. I can get a 200 power factor from a 38 special, just barely in the +p range with 200 grain bullets. It opens a whole new world of oportunity and ballistic envelopes. I carried a model 15 Smith and Wesson for a long time loaded with a 200 grain swc at 950 feet per second, and felt very well armed. You can't buy that load, but it is relatively mild with slow powder like 2400 or especially 1mr 4227. Accurate in the extreme, too.

  4. #13
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    My question is, if you defend yourself using reloads, would the police be able to tell that the rounds you shot were reloads? I suppose that if they inspected the primers on the rounds that you did not shoot, then they'd be able to tell then, but if you empty the gun, would they still be able to?
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  5. #14
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    I'll answer that by saying, who cares! They can inspect everything I have since there are no laws (in my state) against carrying and using reloads. The bottom line in a self defense shooting would be was it a righteous shooting...
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hat View Post
    I'll answer that by saying, who cares! They can inspect everything I have since there are no laws (in my state) against carrying and using reloads. The bottom line in a self defense shooting would be was it a righteous shooting...
    That doesn't answer my question. Is there a way to tell that the rounds that have been shot are reloads?
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  7. #16
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    You can by the primers. Most factory ammo have brass primers and most primers for reloading have nickel plated primers. Also you can have die marks, extra extractor marks and crimp marks on the brass but the primers are usually the give away.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    As a ccw instructor, i have extensively researched this matter, and on the advice of three different attorney, one first hand, two second hand, I don't care a fig about reloads or storebought. What is the difference in a reload and factory ammo? Deadly force is deadly force, and nothing will ever change that.
    In a perfect legal setting yes. However our judicial system is far from perfect.
    If every case that goes to court depends on the type of ammo that is used in a shooting, why are we not prohibited from using any cartridge.
    There is the case of Harold Fish in AZ where his use of 10mm hollowpoint ammunition was a factor in his conviction. Granted at the time justifiable homicide was napoleonic justice. The shooter had the burden of proof. Now it's the other way around, the prosecution does in AZ. His case is on appeal to be tried under the new statute for justifiable homicide. There was much suppressed evidence on the merits of the incident.
    In North Carolina, the law does not state what may or may not be carried, other than it must be designed to be held and fired with one hand, and have a "short stock" .Sawed off shot guns and full auto are prohibited, as well as (presumably) legal suppressors. Pretty big ball field. It is very easy to get off in the weeds on ammo, when the important thing is, never even pull the thing unless deadly force is justified, and a reasonable person(or twelve) would agree with you.

    I personally carry a .44 magnum, loaded with either Hornady XTP 180 grain, max loads, or a Lee 310 grain flat point. Both are handloads. I don't lose any sleep worrying about the lawsuits, etc. I just want to make sure that if a situation arises where i have to use deadly force, I am completely justified.
    Let me get this straight, you're in NC which has no civil suit immunity and you don't care about the legal powder keg you're playing with by using reloads not to mention that the NC DOJ attorney that teaches or did teach NC CCW instructors strongly advises against use of reloads for liablity reasons? This is also the same NC attorney who defends NC LEOs in justifiable homicide cases.

    Here's the text book case on not using reloads. Granted it was a suicide in NJ, but the same reasoning can be used to keep you from getting convicted of manslaughter or homicide. It may also keep you from losing the farm in a civil suit.

    You don't want to use reloads because of the simple fact the there's a question of whether or not the evidence (your reloaded ammo) can be reproduced in an objective manner by the investigating LE agency, coroner, prosecution and your defense. If you use reloads, you remove the objectivity factor of the ammunition you use. If you use factory ammo, it's a simple matter of the LE agency contacting the manufacturer or ordering exactly what you used. Also if you factory ammunition chances are there will be more of it at the scene of the incident as it's sold in lots of 20, 25 or 50. For some of the economic personal protection ammunition such as UMC and USA, it's available in 100 and 250 lots. Chances are there will be plenty of factory ammunition from the same production lot available for testing and recreating the incident in a crime lab. That works to your advantage. Since you'd be under indictment for homicide, they're not going to let you attempt to re engineer your handloaded round.

    The merits of the case can be the difference between whether or not the grand jury returns "no bill" in a grand jury case or if you're even prosecuted at all.

    Part of the merits of the incident are public perception prior to jury selection. I don't care how impartial the jury is supposed to be. They will get wind of the incident and the auxiliary branch of the judicial system called the media will slant the case to get more people to tune in or sell papers.

    I too have a .44 magnum. However I would keep it loaded with .44 special and not .44 magnum unless it was in an area where larger dangerous game was an issue such as bear, boar, mountain lions, etc. The reason being is this, note the suggested use of Winchester Silvertips in .44 special, personal protection vs. .44 magnum, hunting. A good ambulance or hearse chaser will make an issue of that simple distinction that may get a criminal or civil judgment levied against you.

    The NC castle doctrine was defeated which doesn't surprise me with lawyers like John Edwards, who is the Johnnie Cochran of civil litigation, running your State, I would not leave anything to chance with lethal force, personal injury and wrongful death in your State which I have coined the sue me State.

    If I was in a State that had blanket civil suit immunity then I wouldn't be as cautious about ammunition choice. However the stand your ground States with blanket civil suit immunity are the exception rather than the norm presently.
    Last edited by netentity; 01-06-2009 at 03:08 PM.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
    NRA & UT Certified Instructor; CT, FL, NH, NV, OR, PA & UT CCW Holder
    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hat View Post
    You can by the primers. Most factory ammo have brass primers and most primers for reloading have nickel plated primers. Also you can have die marks, extra extractor marks and crimp marks on the brass but the primers are usually the give away.
    I kinda figured that. What about from the bullets themselves, brass not included. Say if the rounds are fired from a revolver, which doesn't extract the shell casings; is there any way to tell that the bullets (without looking at the shell casings) are reloads?
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  10. #19
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    From my experience, reloads can be tempermental and do give you practice clearing tha occasional jam. I prefer to trust my life to Quality factory ammo. I carry Winchester SXT in my 380 and MagSafe in my 9mm and 45, however any premium quality major brand of "self defense" ammo will work just fine. It's just a matter of personal preference.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I kinda figured that. What about from the bullets themselves, brass not included. Say if the rounds are fired from a revolver, which doesn't extract the shell casings; is there any way to tell that the bullets (without looking at the shell casings) are reloads?
    Simple answer is no. It's the same as a factory bullet. Once fired you can only match rifling if there is enough and possibly the type of powder that was used if residue is present.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

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