Black Talon - Ranger T - Bonded PDX1
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Thread: Black Talon - Ranger T - Bonded PDX1

  1. Black Talon - Ranger T - Bonded PDX1

    I have seen a lot of postings saying the Ranger T and Black Talon are the same
    bullets. I have also noticed a lot of mixed opinions on the PDX1's. So I
    decided to post this for everyone's information. None of the 3 are exactly the
    same but they are all very similar. I will not try to speculate which one is
    the best but I have my 9mm loaded with the 124gr PDX1 +P. Here is some
    information on the 3 different bullets.

    Black Talon
    The Black Talon handgun bullet is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with
    perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion. The bullet included
    a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process, (though widely misreported to
    be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax) giving it an unusual black appearance
    compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. The Lubalox coating was to
    protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing
    capabilities. This coating in fact is still widely used on many of Winchester's
    rifle bullets today. The bullet also had a unique appearance with a star shaped
    perforation on the black tip, giving it the nickname Starpoint.

    Ranger SXT/Ranger T
    Winchester discontinued the Black Talon line completely in 2000. The “Ranger
    SXT” ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon
    though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Among shooters, a
    running joke is that SXT stands for “Same eXact Thing", though the official
    branding is “Supreme eXpansion Technology”. However, there are differences in
    the anatomy of the bullets which become apparent when carefully examined side
    by side. The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were
    altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper"
    design unique to the Black Talon was retained. This "reverse taper" refers to
    the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than the toward the base,
    enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely
    perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding
    jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead
    mushroom. This difference is obvious after firing into ballistic gelatin. In
    2007 Winchester updated their Ranger SXT line and renamed it Ranger T-Series.
    Besides further dimensional changes to the hollow point for reliable expansion,
    the trademark perpendicular petals were made longer yet more rounded at the
    tips to retain stiffness.

    PDX1
    In 2009 Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite
    line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. It is similar to the Ranger
    SXT series and, therefore, the older Black Talon line in its structure, and is
    available in several calibers and loadings. The most obvious difference from
    the SXT is that the bonded design, meant to maintain structural integrity
    through difficult intermediate barriers like auto-glass, largely prevents the
    sharp petals from peeling away from the lead core and fully protruding into the
    wound track. The .40 S&W PDX1 cartridge is the primary service ammunition of
    the FBI. The PDX1 series is also available for purchase by civilian shooters.
    Further, there is no law that prohibits civilians from buying ammunition marked
    "Law Enforcement", which some of the Ranger line has printed on the box (as do
    other lines of ammo).

  2.   
  3. #2
    Thanks for the info. I knew about the Ranger SXTs, but had not heard about the PDX1.

  4. #3
    Thanx for the update..

    Gulf Coast, Floriduh
    Sccy is the limit

  5. #4
    Good info--thank you

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Georgetown, Texas
    Posts
    403
    Excellent information ID9..!

    Thank you sir

  7. #6
    I use both, the ranger in .357 sig and the pdx1 in 40 cal at 180 gr. Both are great defensive, carry ammo options.

  8. #7
    The Winchester Black Talon and the Rememington Golden Saber are virtually the same just one is black and the other is gold. The only real reason behind the controversy of the Black Talon was just that, a black projectile that was brought out as a cop killer. There was another bullet that got a bad rap, which unfortunately was true was the original Federal Hyra-Shoc. This bullet would penetrate a kevlar vest. Years ago I tested ammuntion from different ammunition companies. I tested the .45 ACP, 9 mm, 357 mag, 44 mag and .40 S&W and the best results was with the Rememington Golden Saber, Winchester Black Talon, Federal Hyrda-Shoc, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT Ranger and Silver Tip. Went through many Gel-Blocks and long hours of testing. Of couse any of these ammunition products are worthless if one does not take the time to train with at least once a month with these high powered cartridges and the remainder of the time with factory loaded ammunition to keep the feeling of the recoil and the accuracy one needs. All tests were done at the 7 yd, 15 yd and 25 yd range. Today I still use the Rememington Golden Saber as my primary ammunition, although any of the other ammunition is just as good and really depends on two factors, (1) will your firearm shoot accurate this ammunition without jamming (2) can the shooter control his firearm with a good shot group. Everyone should practice with what they carry and the ammunition they feel most confident. Besides it is a good idea to rotate yur ammunition, only bad thing is the availibility of the ammunition.

  9. #8
    Actually the reasons for Winchester having to dodge a political football game over the Black Talon are many.
    1- The round had a menacing name and appearance that the anti-gunners could focus on.
    2- The round got a lot of "Gangsta" publicity due to rap artists using its name a lot.
    3- Collin Ferguson used the Black Talon durring the Long Island Railroad shooting. Note that had he used FMJ ammo, there probably would have been more casualties due to ricochettes and shoot throughs, but why confuse anti's with facts?
    4- The above incident happened in NYC, where all the anti-gunners can rally.

  10. #9
    JSDinTexas Guest
    I find your post to be accurate and informative. In the .40 I began with the Talon and then the Ranger T but switched to Fed Hydra-Shok to go through windshields and doors with a little more authority. Now, after the stock of Hydra is gone, we are moving to the Federal HST 165 grain which has a higher speed and pressure (see Federal website ballistics).
    In .45 I continue to use Ranger T 230 grain +P (a good .45 deserves good, strong ammo ). I have not considered the PDX since I can get the Ranger but I have shot it and it's good too.

  11. The non bonded SXT and T series are very devastating. The Black Talons that Collin Ferguson used were the original 147 grain. The original bullets did not expand like everyone thought. Winchester redesigned the Black Talon and the newer SXT became a popular LE round. The PDX1 is available in a 20 round box and available at most sporting goods stores. If you want a good deal on the PDX1 in .40 you can find them online at SGammo.com in 50 round white box reclassified.

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