Hornady Critical Defense vs Critical Duty - Page 4
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 72

Thread: Hornady Critical Defense vs Critical Duty

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    An Alternate Reality, I Assure You...
    Posts
    5,115
    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    PLEASE put me your ignore list bob
    Not a chance SGB...
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
    Operation Veterans Relief: http://www.opvr.org/home.html

  2.   
  3. #32
    Hornady has good information on its web site.
    No over penetration, just getting the bullet to penetrate to stop the bad guy.
    As far as personal protection, you may have to shoot through a barrier to stop the bad guy. If this is not part of your thought process maybe it should be.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    I read an article about the Critical Duty ammo. At the moment my aging teflon coated cranial velcro doesn't remember which magazine had it. The bottom line of the article was that Critical Duty was a good LEO round, able to pass the entire FBI test regimen of barriers and clothes - maybe the only ammo that has passed so far. Very good for LEO's who might have to shoot through barriers like that, but clearly more penetration than 99.99% of SD situations need and therefore an over penetration liability for civillian concealed carry.

    It sounded to me like Critical Duty might be good winter carry ammo in areas where folks wear a lot of heavy winter clothes, Carthartt Jackets, erc. Personally, I'd have a hard time living with killing or gravely injuring some innocent person beyond the bad guy because of over penetration. Critical Defense was designed with civillian concealed carry as the target market. Critical duty was designed with LEO's as the target market though it is also available for sale to civillians.

    Envision a lawyer riding on the nose of every bullet you shoot. Pick your pony, take your ride.

    Fitch
    Hmm...

    1. All of the loads listed at Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums have passed the FBI test protocol. Let me just say there are over 25 of them.

    2. Are the BG's which attack LEO's bigger than the ones that attack civilians? Why would you assume LEO's need more penetration than civilians?

    Take me for example: I'm 6'1, 200 lbs., and for a bullet to reach my heart through my right arm, it would have to penetrate just over 15 inches. A Critical Defense round isn't going to get the job done in that case.

    3. "Very good for LEO's who might have to shoot through barriers like that, but clearly more penetration than 99.99% of SD situations need and therefore an over penetration liability for civillian concealed carry."

    Err, explain. What if you have to take a 75 degree angle shot at a 350 lb. man who is standing over you? You may need 16" of penetration to reach anything important. A bullet stuck in fatty tissue is just going to really piss him off.

    As far as barriers go, what if there is a BG in your home who is taking shots at your from behind a wall? Are you not going to return fire? What if someone tries to carjack you, and you end up having to shoot through your windshield?

    Anyways.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

  5. Quote Originally Posted by jg1967 View Post
    Exactly. Critical Duty is literally overkill for self defense applications. As somebody else in another review said it, you can't seriously want to shoot thru barriers in a self defense situation. That would most likely turn the self defense into a gunfight.
    First, and this should go without saying, any "fight" in which a firearm is used is called a "gunfight."

    Second, nobody WANTS to shoot at anything, but wishful thinking doesn't do any of us any good. If you have to shoot through a barrier, you have to shoot through a barrier. I want my ammunition to perform after it pass through said barrier into my target.

    I can't believe you could possibly call any 'regular' handgun round "overkill." A 5.56 round with 1300 ft-lbs of energy isn't "overkill," so I find it hard to believe that a round with less than 400 ft-lbs of energy is considered overkill just because it penetrates TWO more inches than another.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

  6. Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    .... the stupidity of these remarks is just without measure. They show a total lack of understanding and training in terminal ballistics and the not so subtle nuance between a self defense shooting and a self defense gunfight.
    It's funny you said that, because I was just about to say exactly the same thing.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    So. Central PA
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Hawk View Post
    Hmm...

    1. All of the loads listed at Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums have passed the FBI test protocol. Let me just say there are over 25 of them.
    Interesting link. Thanks.

    I must have missed it, but no place on that page I could find did it say all those loads have been certified by the FBI as having passed their test. They have been "vetted" by the guy (or Doctor Roberts?) that wrote the post, but that isn't the same thing.

    Is there an official published list of the loads published by the FBI that are officially certified to have passed their complete test protocol? I searched for a while and didn't find one. I found information detailing the test but no FBI lab results.

    I found this article wandering around the web because this thread got me thinking. I think this article is by the same guy that made the post you linked to.

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

    Interesting read. I'm not all the way through it yet, but I'll get there.

    I found his test results on the 115g COR-BON DPX interesting. That happens to be the cartridge I'm carrying in my 19 and 26. I picked it because I've had good experience with the Barnes bullets in my hunting rifles.

    I also found his .223 40g testing interesting. I shoot the 40g Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3640 out of my CZ 527. It's my Go-To ground hog load. Terminal performance is awesome.

    Fitch

  8. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Southwestern, MI
    Posts
    214
    Anything in life has tradeoffs and ammunition is no exception. Better penetration means that over penetration is more likely. The needs of the civilian compared to Law Enforcement are different in that we have the right to self defense but they have the duty to prevent crime. The Police aren't supposed retreat if possible but we are. The difference between Defense and Duty is Critical.

  9. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    757
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by alduane View Post
    Anything in life has tradeoffs and ammunition is no exception. Better penetration means that over penetration is more likely. The needs of the civilian compared to Law Enforcement are different in that we have the right to self defense but they have the duty to prevent crime. The Police aren't supposed retreat if possible but we are. The difference between Defense and Duty is Critical.
    i agree. what is expected of the individual layperson and the trained vary greatly. and thus the tools must as well. i think the good samaritan law encompasses it best. u are lawfully protected if you respond quickly, work to best of your training, and do not receive compensation. if you have no training shooting through and around barriers, no one expects you try or carry tools that suggests you can, legally speaking. just as no one expects a layperson to carry latex gloves and breathing barrier for cpr, the law allows and protects them to perform compressions only to keep the blood circulation til paid responders arrive. just as the law would not protect a layperson if they were to perform a duct tape and ballpoint pen tracheotomy if they have had no training to suggest they would be able to do it safely... even if they saved that person's life.

    want to carry "better" ammunition? get some training and become a better shooter or hold ur ground til the people who know what they are doing arrive.

    this is not legal advice. get an attorney for that. but i was a cpr instructor for laypeople and medical professionals for 5 years, so take that as you will

  10. As some of the other people have mentioned, the reason I would prefer to have the "Duty" round is for the possibility of a car jacking, where I will have my firearm at easy reach for when the BG walks up with a gun pointed at me and I can penetrate the plastic and sheet metal of my vehicles door....

  11. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    757
    Posts
    81
    id take this with a grain of salt, but i read on another forum that a guy shot through an old car from the trunk end. the bullet pierced the trunk, back seat, front seat, thru the dash, then bounced around off the engine.

    i have no idea if this is true or not, but worth trying out if anyone has the means. if it is true it probably wont have any trouble penetrating a door. terminal ballistics thru the BG of course might not be ideal.

    just a thought

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast