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Thread: Glaser Safety Slug?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock Fan View Post
    Glad you're still with us! Great that the BG used a .22 mag and not a larger caliber. I would imagine things could have been a lot worse. The second and third "crack" noises you heard may have been as you described, possibly the BG dropping his gun? If your partner drew down on the BG, possibly the "snap" from holster? Lots of possibilities, just glad that they got you to the hospital in time for the doctors to patch you up.



    gf



    No kidding. A search revealed he had a 9mm Makarov in the house (old surplus gun). guess it was just my lucky day. I'm sure a 9mm wouldn't have been so forgiving.
    "If it is time to bury your guns, then it is time to dig them up!"

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  3. #22
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    Mar 2009
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    TN, the patron state of shootin stuff
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    Frangible Ammo

    Well today I uploaded the images since I am having trouble posting them here.
    Here are the photos of my frangible test.
    Load data: 105gr .40 cal. 6gr of HP-38.
    I know water is not ballistics gel but it was sure fun. My wife didnt care for the little science experiment but my
    2 sons thought it was cool.



    Here's the link for the photos.

    Pictures by Big_Slick - Photobucket

  4. #23
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    I had Glaser Safety Slugs in my .357 Taurus revolver back in the late 80s. I fired one of the rounds into a sand pile and it was quite a site. There was a small hole but when we widened it and looked inside with a flashlight there was a large, round, area that glittered with BBs.

    My first shot in the revolver after that was snake shot (lived in AZ) but the other five rounds were the safety slugs.

  5. #24

    Amen, Glad you're still with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCjones View Post
    No kidding. A search revealed he had a 9mm Makarov in the house (old surplus gun). guess it was just my lucky day. I'm sure a 9mm wouldn't have been so forgiving.
    Amen, Glad you're still with us.
    Quote Originally Posted by stateofbliss View Post
    I didn't know I had even shot myself until I began to see drops of blood on the floor (after being disappointed at the mere fact of an AD (or as clarified as an ND) in my home) about 5 to 7 seconds later after trying to see where the bullet may have hit across the room and finally looking down. There was no pain what so ever at the onset - where one would expect being shot at point blank would have at least made some impression.
    It was a few steps to the sink where I rinsed the hand to discover it wasn't anything I would be able to fix at home. Trained as a first responder, I grabbed a kitchen towel off the counter and used it as a tourniquet and dialed 911. I grabbed another and used it as a compress. EMS took over, but had the wife been home we would have been racing to the hospital - same action you took.

    I often wondered what level of first aid is taught to LE - IMHO a necessity (as the first responder) to be able to save their partner(s) or themselves situation - and regularly reinforce that knowledge. The Ft Hood shootings for example, people started 1st aid while the shootings were still going on.

    Are patrol cars even stocked with a 1st aid kit? Someone could have helped you with a compress to have stopped the bleeding (maybe kept the car cleaner).

    However, this is a glaser thread and I don't want to stray away off topic.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stateofbliss View Post
    Amen, Glad you're still with us.


    It was a few steps to the sink where I rinsed the hand to discover it wasn't anything I would be able to fix at home. Trained as a first responder, I grabbed a kitchen towel off the counter and used it as a tourniquet and dialed 911. I grabbed another and used it as a compress. EMS took over, but had the wife been home we would have been racing to the hospital - same action you took.

    I often wondered what level of first aid is taught to LE - IMHO a necessity (as the first responder) to be able to save their partner(s) or themselves situation - and regularly reinforce that knowledge. The Ft Hood shootings for example, people started 1st aid while the shootings were still going on.

    Are patrol cars even stocked with a 1st aid kit? Someone could have helped you with a compress to have stopped the bleeding (maybe kept the car cleaner).

    However, this is a glaser thread and I don't want to stray away off topic.
    To answer your question, most L/E guys have very little First Aid Training. When I went through the academy, it was basically how not to do first aid and wait for medics. The only reason I had the knowlege was because I was a Paramedic on an Ambulance before I became a Police Officer.
    There's Something Goin' On Here, and it Ain't Funny!!!

  7. #26
    Glazers are very good for apartment/home situations where wall penetration/ ricochet is undesirable. Discussing stopping power is somewhat moot. If the BG has armor, nothing to too good. If tee shirt, anything of sufficient caliber is ok. Most perps don't want to be shot. A well placed double-tap stops them. Problem with most self defense shooters is that they are untrained and ill trained, and most definitely insufficiently practiced. Training is more than hitting your target. Ever think of what to do if there are innocent people behind the bad guy you must shoot? Have you been trained to hit the floor and shoot upwards so that any overpenetration goes up and above those behind? Looking for the magic bullet is often a waste of time. An eyeball hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a 44 magnum. I carry a 1911 24/7 for decades.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorien View Post
    If you want the best 9mm ammunition for stopping power and penetration, then use Winchester Black Talons which are very hard but not impossible to find (no longer made to my knowledge - but available at places like the gunbroker's auction site). They penetrate like a FMJ but expand even wider than a normal hollowpoint. I have several cases which I don't use for practice shooting but keep each of my magazines (inclluding the one in my Beretta 92FS) filled with this highly potent ammo. When it was available, it was for military and police use only - though citizens could (and can still) get it at auction sites like always.
    .
    Winchester Ranger T ammo. Same stuff... Winchester (not the govt) said LE only for purchase, but you can find it out there. Costs a little more but it's worth it. Many years back we did some testing with the original Black Talon ammo. 9mm fired from a Beretta 92C into 2 large dead pigs (had a friend who had a family pig farm). Very impressive damage.

    Always looking for some to buy...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  9. Black Talons

    I'm not sure that the Winchester Ranger T is the same as the Black Talon (though it may be similar) - the same reasons they took the originals off the market still exist so I doubt they'd be making more (if they were even allowed to make more). But I'm sure they're better than most 9mm ammo (even most HP ammo). If I ever run out of Black Talons (doubtful since I don't practice with them - I keep them in my extra magazines and loaded in my 92FS at home and very handy) then those will probably be my replacements (but I have a pretty good supply - not looking to buy any more at this point). Even though I'm going for a head shot at in-house ranges, this is still the ammo of choice (more than adequate penetratation and excellent expansion) - almost certain to do the job with one shot and I trust the ammo (though I would fire several just to be sure - I don't want to be shot myself (or have one of my familiy shot) because of a fluke or because I somehow just grazed the BG (VERY unlikely but not worth the risk) or because someone somehow (despite a head wound) survived long enough to return fire even once - especially if using a fully automatic weapon). The one downside is that you aren't going to be able to convince anyone you were merely out to wound using this ammo (but then again, neither is a head shot).

    I was reading other posts here where people were discussing Glaser Safety Slugs. They are worthless IMHO unless you are so concerned about missing and going through a wall that you need this safety line (and I'm not about to miss at in-house ranges - in fact, I'm going for the head shot at those ranges just in case the BG is wearing a vest). Glasers break up too easily and especially in winter with thick coats, it's possible they could not even penetrate the clothing (if it was thick enough with enough layers - especially leather) let alone a vest (which the Talon's wouldn't penetrate either if it was Level III) - then you're in a lot of trouble because the BG is probably using FMJ or HP ammo (maybe even Talons though that's not very likely) which will almost certainly penetrate YOUR clothing (especially since you're inside and not wearing much). I'm not about to take that kind of chance. Even though a FMJ has more penetration power than a HP, it doesn't cause as much damage (but nevertheless, I wouldn't want to be hit with either and inside my house during a home invasion, I'm not going to wait for the BG to fire first. This is another reason not to use FMJ ammo - it has more penetration and could go through the target and perhaps even the wall afterwards (though I think standard FMJ doesn't have THAT much penetration power but it is more risky).

    There are AP rounds that will penetrate even Level IV vests (and I'm not even talking about depleted uranium rounds which would do the trick but are hard as hell to get your hands on if you even want them - if they're even legal). The problem there is that they have TOO much penetration (unless you're fighting someone wearing a vest and you don't really expect that - and as I said, I'm going for the head shot inside the house). There a solid chest strike (or a head strike) could easily be a through-and-through (in fact, almost certainly will) and then the problem with the walls becomes a real problem because it could very easily go through one of them as well and then you're shooting somewhat blind and could shoot something/someone you don't want to hit (the point of the Glasers for people who can't shoot well enough to hit what they aim at at in-house distances which anyone using a firearm should be able to do with relative ease or should practice until they can.
    Last edited by lorien; 02-25-2010 at 05:02 PM. Reason: Incomplete response - added info

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorien View Post
    I'm not sure that the Winchester Ranger T is the same as the Black Talon (though it may be similar) - the same reasons they took the originals off the market still exist so I doubt they'd be making more (if they were even allowed to make more). But I'm sure they're better than most 9mm ammo (even most HP ammo). If I ever run out of Black Talons (doubtful since I don't practice with them - I keep them in my extra magazines and loaded in my 92FS at home and very handy) then those will probably be my replacements (but I have a pretty good supply - not looking to buy any more at this point). Even though I'm going for a head shot at in-house ranges, this is still the ammo of choice (more than adequate penetratation and excellent expansion) - almost certain to do the job with one shot and I trust the ammo (though I would fire several just to be sure - I don't want to be shot myself (or have one of my familiy shot) because of a fluke or because I somehow just grazed the BG (VERY unlikely but not worth the risk) or because someone somehow (despite a head wound) survived long enough to return fire even once - especially if using a fully automatic weapon). The one downside is that you aren't going to be able to convince anyone you were merely out to wound using this ammo (but then again, neither is a head shot).

    I was reading other posts here where people were discussing Glaser Safety Slugs. They are worthless IMHO unless you are so concerned about missing and going through a wall that you need this safety line (and I'm not about to miss at in-house ranges - in fact, I'm going for the head shot at those ranges just in case the BG is wearing a vest). Glasers break up too easily and especially in winter with thick coats, it's possible they could not even penetrate the clothing (if it was thick enough with enough layers - especially leather) let alone a vest (which the Talon's wouldn't penetrate either if it was Level III) - then you're in a lot of trouble because the BG is probably using FMJ or HP ammo (maybe even Talons though that's not very likely) which will almost certainly penetrate YOUR clothing (especially since you're inside and not wearing much). I'm not about to take that kind of chance. Even though a FMJ has more penetration power than a HP, it doesn't cause as much damage (but nevertheless, I wouldn't want to be hit with either and inside my house during a home invasion, I'm not going to wait for the BG to fire first. This is another reason not to use FMJ ammo - it has more penetration and could go through the target and perhaps even the wall afterwards (though I think standard FMJ doesn't have THAT much penetration power but it is more risky).

    There are AP rounds that will penetrate even Level IV vests (and I'm not even talking about depleted uranium rounds which would do the trick but are hard as hell to get your hands on if you even want them - if they're even legal). The problem there is that they have TOO much penetration (unless you're fighting someone wearing a vest and you don't really expect that - and as I said, I'm going for the head shot inside the house). There a solid chest strike (or a head strike) could easily be a through-and-through (in fact, almost certainly will) and then the problem with the walls becomes a real problem because it could very easily go through one of them as well and then you're shooting somewhat blind and could shoot something/someone you don't want to hit (the point of the Glasers for people who can't shoot well enough to hit what they aim at at in-house distances which anyone using a firearm should be able to do with relative ease or should practice until they can.
    It is, just improved and modified, so yes and no same but different... Winchester stopped selling it for some time due to the media and the Brady bunch folks telling everyone how deadly it was. Winchester is making it again due to it's reliable expansion and stopping power. They changed the packaging and no loner use the black lubalox oxide coating. They call it Ranger T. It is Winchester that restricts the sale to LE. It's not illegal to own it or carry it. Some differences, but it's the same design.

    Black Talon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Peace
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  11. #30

    rumors and falacies

    Rumors and Falicies in the Self Defense Realm

    #1 Never shoot to wound. If you are not mentally willing for the recipient of your bullet to die instantly. sell your gun.

    #2 Rumors of "magic bullets" and failures of such, are generally just rumors. Actual shootings provide concrete results. Shot placement is the most important. Also if you are worried about clothing and vests, you should be shooting a pointed bullet of maximum velocity.

    (note= If a magic bullet was the prime importance, you would be carrying the hardest hitting round, .45 acp in 185 +P, such as CorBon or Golden Sabre. Check out wiki on hydrostatic shock.)

    #3 In any self defense situation, resulting in criminal or civil litigation, you should NEVER have any weapon, ammo, or training questions that might allow a lawyer to twist you into being the bad guy. You will lose, unless you have many thousands $$$ for your own personal defense attorney and to hire expert witnesses.

    Remember OJ. You might win a criminal proceding and then be sued for millions.

    Looking up the Strasbourg test, you will note that Strasbourg Tests indicate that electronically monitored goats shot with fully fragmenting ammo such as Glazer and MagSafe are 'brain dead' in 1/2 the time of the best hollow point pistol ammo.

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