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Thread: Glaser Safety Slug?

  1. "Remember OJ. You might win a criminal proceding and then be sued for millions"

    Probably not in Texas
    .... This Act took effect September 1, 2007.
    AN ACT

    relating to the use of force or deadly force in defense of a person.

    BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:

    SECTION 1. Section 9.01, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subdivisions (4) and (5) to read as follows:

    (4) “Habitation” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.

    (5) “Vehicle” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.

    SECTION 2. Section 9.31, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (e) and (f) to read as follows:

    (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor [himself] against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

    (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

    (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

    (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

    (C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;

    (2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

    (e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.

    (f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

    SECTION 3. Section 9.32, Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:

    Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

    (1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

    (2) [if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and

    [(3)] when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

    (A) to protect the actor [himself] against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

    (B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

    (b) The actor’s belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

    (1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

    (A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

    (B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

    (C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);

    (2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

    (3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used [requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor].

    (c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

    (d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

    SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:

    Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant’s [against a person who at the time of the] use of force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant].

    SECTION 5. (a) Sections 9.31 and 9.32, Penal Code, as amended by this Act, apply only to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is covered by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for this purpose. For the purposes of this subsection, an offense is committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of the offense occurs before the effective date.

    (b) Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, as amended by this Act, applies only to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of this Act. An action that accrued before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in effect at the time the action accrued, and that law is continued in effect for that purpose.

    SECTION 6. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.


    That said, you'd still be responsible for any stray sheetrock penetrating bullet going into the apartment next door. Glaser makes a blue, and a Silver. The Silver is a heavier shot that penetrates better, but I believe is still supposed to break apart in a wall. Most police agencies stopped allowing fangible ammo after having to shoot through a screen door and it coming to pievces prior to reaching the bad guy. But, frangible ammo may have its place if you are an apartment dweller or have other people in your house on the other side of whatever wall... Though if the bad guy is around the corner, you can't shoot him through the wall ...

  2.   
  3. #32

    Shoot through walls?

    Does anyone in real life deliberately shoot through walls? not seeing the intended target?

    try this in your mag:

    2 fragmenting, 2 hollow points, etc.

    alternative, 2 frags, 2 hp, 2 hard ball, etc.

    If you can't get em in the first 4........ well.

    My second mag is all deep penetration stuff. I can always change mags before empty.

    30 year veteran

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
    Does anyone in real life deliberately shoot through walls? not seeing the intended target?
    try this in your mag:

    2 fragmenting, 2 hollow points, etc.

    alternative, 2 frags, 2 hp, 2 hard ball, etc.

    If you can't get em in the first 4........ well.

    My second mag is all deep penetration stuff. I can always change mags before empty.

    30 year veteran
    Good idea mixing the ammo.
    If I live alone in a brick house, all neighbors in brick houses (or no neighbors, out in the country), and an intruder is on one side of an interior wall in my hallway peeking around the corner through the doorway and shooting through that doorway, you bet I'd shoot him through the wall he is using for concealment. There's a lot more to hit through that wall that might stop him, than trying to get a quick head or hand shot. I'd shoot through a plastic garbage can he was hiding behind as concealment and popping up shooting, if he was inside my house shooting at me too. I can fix sheetrock and buy another grabage can cheaper than I can fix me, assuming I survived waiting for the intruder's head or hand to pop out to aim while adrenaline causes tunnelvision and my hand to shake. But on the other side of that wall, I can figure where most of his body is while he is peeking and aiming.

  5. #34
    Not to be argumentative.....

    but go look at a house under construction and look at the multiple 2x4s around doorways, even interior doorways, or open ends of halls coming into the room.
    Take a little time to closely simulate and consider what it takes to make this kind of oblique shot. If you are at a 45* angle to the wall/door, your point of aim between 2x4s is less than two inches through the first wall. If you shoot through two walls, (a 90* corner), then the odds of making it are about like winning the lottery. (draw a picture, you will see that I am correct)

    Consider how much ammo you might waste punching into a couple 2x4s and letting the bad guy know exactly where you are.

    I am telling you sincerely after decades of real world existence....... movies are NOT the real world. Many of the things we THINK might work.... usually don't.

    Also learning to shoot at an upward angle while hitting the floor is good training too. The BG isn't expecting you to be low, and if you over penetrate him, any innocents who might be behind him are less likely to be hit.

    Plan to increase your odds of survival, not give the bad guy an edge.
    A little planning like this is worth the time invested.

    Ever been awakened at 1:30 am by a black silouette standing 8 feet from the foot of your bed? I was last year. Yes I sleep with my .45
    it is NOT an experience that you want to call "fun".
    Believe me.... you will be amazed at how fuzzy headed you are at that instant before the adrenelin hits....

    Be analytical and pragmatic about all contrived scenerios.
    We are talking about saving your life.

  6. #35
    RPB, thanks for the TX gun law.

    Breaking up on a screen door screen? I'd have to see it personally to ever believe it.

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Topeka, Kansas
    Posts
    81
    The Glasers are, across the board, a horrible choice for defensive ammo. They exhibit very shallow penetration when they work as designed, and act like lightweight ball ammo when they fail to expnd, which happens rather often.

    The wounding that I have seen from Glasers in real life shootings has not left me impressed.

    For the record, no handgun has "knockdown power", and the FAMs do not use Glasers or frangible ammo, they use Ranger-T in their .357Sigs.

  8. #37
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cajun Land
    Posts
    367
    Quote Originally Posted by tpd223 View Post
    The Glasers are, across the board, a horrible choice for defensive ammo. They exhibit very shallow penetration when they work as designed, and act like lightweight ball ammo when they fail to expnd, which happens rather often.

    The wounding that I have seen from Glasers in real life shootings has not left me impressed.

    For the record, no handgun has "knockdown power", and the FAMs do not use Glasers or frangible ammo, they use Ranger-T in their .357Sigs.
    In addition I will add, that several shootings have taken place where Glasers opened up in leather jackets and thick clothing, leaving nothing but the tiny shot left to penetrate the skin. Not a good tactical choice in my book. After testing in several situations and common scenarios when I was a LEO Instructor, our Department decided against Glaser Safety Slugs for any deparmental use.
    There's Something Goin' On Here, and it Ain't Funny!!!

  9. #38
    If you miss with a GLASER, it will still go through walls. If it does happen to pass through a person, then it should fragment (at least that is what was preached to me).

  10. #39
    There is no "magic bullet" that will do all things in all situations. period.
    Glazer is designed for limited wall penetration (indoor defense) with reasonable stopping power.

    2 Glazers followed by Golden Sabres pretty much covers it.

    Start thinking = One shot, one kill.
    Don't spray ammo like the movies.

  11. glasers work

    Quote Originally Posted by burchesss View Post
    Has anyone tryed the glaser "safety slug" ammo? They clam to offer more stoping power, and less chance of over penetration. Can a bullet stop a BG, and NOT shoot through interior walls if you miss? It almost sounds Sci Fi to me but they have been around like 30 years or so any one tryed them?
    I've used them in a 9mm. BG was 6'3plus,245. Instant shock effect lights out. He died later at the hospital. They dispatched the BG as I would expect, based on everything I had read about them and there was a friendly directly behind him! I keep five on top with ten silvertips to finish the mag-I have bet my life on that hand!

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