Glaser Safety Slug? - Page 5
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Thread: Glaser Safety Slug?

  1. #41
    I have done some personal testing of the Glaser Safety, and the Mag-safe ammo in .45ACP,.38 special, .380 and .25ACP. To sum it all up they penetrate deeper than anything else that I tried (both ball and JHP) and they make a big cavity at the termination point of the channel. All of the rounds were very accurate at 25 yrds. especially the .25 ACP I could cover the group with my hand. Glaser says that glass defeats them and they recommend a double tap under those circumstances. Wood like 2x4's and hard oak planks do not stop them. They penetrate better than ball and make a big hole on exit. I have shot them into heavy polyethylene barrels 35 gal types the entrance hole is clean and the opposite side is full of a lot of little exit holes about two hand widths. The Mag-Safe are all I carry in the .25ACP and the .380. I carry JHP in all the other guns. I really like the Speer Gold dot JHP and JHP +P short barrel ammo for defense carry they function well are very accurate and penetrate deeply an excellent cartridge. Just my two cents from personal experience. I won't carry ammo that I haven't tested and I won't carry a gun that I haven't put 1000 rounds through under real world circumstances with reasonable accuracy.

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjohn View Post
    I have done some personal testing of the Glaser Safety, and the Mag-safe ammo in .45ACP,.38 special, .380 and .25ACP. To sum it all up they penetrate deeper than anything else that I tried (both ball and JHP) and they make a big cavity at the termination point of the channel. All of the rounds were very accurate at 25 yrds. especially the .25 ACP I could cover the group with my hand. Glaser says that glass defeats them and they recommend a double tap under those circumstances. Wood like 2x4's and hard oak planks do not stop them. They penetrate better than ball and make a big hole on exit. I have shot them into heavy polyethylene barrels 35 gal types the entrance hole is clean and the opposite side is full of a lot of little exit holes about two hand widths. The Mag-Safe are all I carry in the .25ACP and the .380. I carry JHP in all the other guns. I really like the Speer Gold dot JHP and JHP +P short barrel ammo for defense carry they function well are very accurate and penetrate deeply an excellent cartridge. Just my two cents from personal experience. I won't carry ammo that I haven't tested and I won't carry a gun that I haven't put 1000 rounds through under real world circumstances with reasonable accuracy.
    Geez, a thousand rounds of Mag-Safe 380 for testing, and a 1000 rounds of 45 Gold Dot just for testing must have been really expensive.

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
    Geez, a thousand rounds of Mag-Safe 380 for testing, and a 1000 rounds of 45 Gold Dot just for testing must have been really expensive.
    Sorry about the poor wording I used 40 rounds per gun of both Glasers and MagSafe and yes even that amount was expensive. I function fire and practice with all carry guns using ball ammo. The .45 was 230gr lead hand loads, the .38 was 158gr lead speer hand loads I believe it's been a while. The .380 was all S&B I really like there ammo very clean burning. The .25 was all winchester ball. Each gun took me about a week or a little more to shoot the 1000 rounds. sure I could have done it faster but I was having too much fun and wanted to make it last at least a little while.

  5. #44
    No offense intended. Just pulling your leg a little.

    Good advice, good thinking.
    You must trust your weapon and ammo.

    Glazer is perfect for what it was designed to do: Not penetrate humans in thin clothing and hit someone behind them.

    If you miss, it goes right through sheet rock like hardball and into someone on the other side, and never fragments in that person. Shootings have proved that.
    That is something to seriously consider.

  6. #45

    No offense taken ever

    You are right about that they have plenty of penetration. I think I prefer the MagSafe. The biggest reason I looked into them years ago is ricochet problems.
    I have heard that a 9mm can ricochet over 1500 meters and still split a skull. Glasers and Magsafe both come apart when they hit something like a curb.

  7. #46
    Here's some reading. The Stasborg Goat Test where they shot goats to determine the nervous system incapacitation.

    http://www.google.com/search?source=...2ea6e12edc6080

    Here's the PDF of AIT Average Incapacitation Times. Last column to the right.
    Notice that the most popular LEO bullets are among the longest times.
    http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1012844/files/0701267.pdf

    Is that because:
    1) LEOs want/need more penetration
    2) LEOs aren't shooting goats from 2 ft.

  8. #47

    Thank you for the PDF

    I have read the summary of the Strasbourg goat test but never the full document thanks for the posting. It is enlightening to say the least.

    The pressure wave is what does the damage that's why a .30 cal high powered rifle is so effective.

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyjohn View Post
    I have read the summary of the Strasbourg goat test but never the full document thanks for the posting. It is enlightening to say the least.

    The pressure wave is what does the damage that's why a .30 cal high powered rifle is so effective.
    Incorrect supposition.

    Each ammo caliber by each manufacturer has several different bullet designs. Each is designed to open at a different penetration depth. Some fragment immediately, some penetrate beyond 13" of flesh BEFORE beginning to open.

    Hydrostatic shock, knocking out the nervous system, is a much debated subject, especially at velocities below 1500 fps, especially in handguns.

    I have another thread on this forum that deals with this subject. Check it out, there is lots of excellent information from an expert in wound ballistics.

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/long-...ullet-yaw.html

    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/handg...-debunked.html

    I guess we have to conclude that goats, deer, large game, and humans have a different incapacition threshold.

    Deer have a instant FLIGHT mode and run on maximum adrenalin until dead, even when shot through the heart or both lungs can get 100 yards away.
    People have a strong tendency to just say "oh xxx" and stop fighting.

    I think that Ayoob said it well: (close rendering) "If you point a gun at their genitals, that is more impressive than pointing it at their head."

    We must also understand that in all these years there has not been a lot of real world shootings into humans with Glazers to give sufficient feedback.
    In self defense we are not likely to be shooting through windshields or car doors.

  10. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Someday View Post
    If you miss with a GLASER, it will still go through walls. If it does happen to pass through a person, then it should fragment (at least that is what was preached to me).
    I've read several posts in this thread stating the view that Glasers may be a poor SD choice because of underpenetration but sometimes may be a valid choice because of overpenetration concerns in apartment or home fields with possible innocents beyond the walls. However I've read reports that these rounds "plug" while going through drywall and act like FMJ until hitting soft flesh. If true, that takes away the one advantage they would seem to possess, since they evidently penetrate walls just like other bullets.

    Further confirmation or links to actual test results re: Glasers through drywall would be of interest, I would think.

    In the meantime I'll stick with proven HP ammo.

  11. #50
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    Each is designed to open at a different penetration depth. Some fragment immediately, some penetrate beyond 13" of flesh BEFORE beginning to open.
    Respectfully sir, this is incorrect.

    All bullets of the pre-fragmented type, and all JHPs, that actually expand when they hit tissue, do so in the first inch or so. This has been clearly shown in thousands of gelatin test shots of various bullets over the years.

    Many non-expanding bullets can have a delayed effect, but this is due to late yaw factors. One such bullet would be the M855 5.56 "green tip" service rifle ammo, the M193 is also subject to this phenomenon.



    I will throw the grenade that hasn't been dropped yet;

    All credible evidence is that the in formation as to the "Strasbourg" (however it is spelled, I have seen several versions) goat tests were a hoax.

    Even if they were not, choosing service or defensive ammo from these tests would be ill advised as the conditions used for the tests do not in any way replicate shooting at attacking bad guys.



    If one wants defensive ammo in 9mm/.40/.45acp that works well on people, but still penetrates less than standard FMJ/JHPs on barriers, then the Federal EMFJ line is what they should choose as it has proven to be a bullet that reacts in this way.

    The Critical Defense line of ammo may also be a good choice in this regard due to the characteristics of that bullet.

    Personally, I used to worry about over-penetration on shootings a great deal, after many years on the street and seeing many, many shootings I don't so much anymore.
    Most modern standard police service style JHP ammo, HST/Ranger-T/Gold Dot/etc. in any of the service calibers does a great job of expanding and staying inside the bad guy.

    Having seen Glaser shootings on the street, I can not recommend that bullet at all. It does not display enough penetration in tissue to be trusted.

    The quality control in the Mag Safe line is lacking in my observation and use of that ammo, and even if it were not the bullets are no better than the Glaser line in actual use. In fact, between the two, I have seen the Mag Safe fail to fragment several times in testing, thus acting like ball ammo. I have not seen the Glasers fail to fragment.


    For apartment defense, which seems to be what some posters in this thread are worried about, then a shotgun loaded with large bird shot would be far, far more effective than a pistol loaded with sub-optimum ammo.

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