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Thread: full metal jacket

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by noylj View Post
    Do the following unscientific test on paper targets at the range:
    Shoot a 5-shot group with factory FMJ-RN
    Shoot a 5-shot group with factory FMJ-FN
    Shoot a 5-shot group with factory JHP.
    Which one leaves the smallest hole in the target?
    That RN can just slip through, doing much less damage than the FN or JHP, even without any expansion.
    I don't consider expansion all the important for .45, so I would consider a SWC to be a "good enough" choice--but not a RN.
    However, it is your decision.
    Are you serious? Bullet holes in paper targets? You do know that a JHP does not expand on a paper target, right? You do know that a tumbling bullet creates the biggest hole in a paper target, right?

    Any reason why you don't consider expansion all the important for .45 ACP and why you would consider a SWC be a "good enough" choice?

    Since the main motivation of the OP is to go cheaper, do you know of any cheap .45 ACP SWC rounds?

  3. As usual, the point is missed. If you actually shot the noted bullets through paper, you will notice a difference. Besides, the .45 is NOT a high speed round where bullets expand all that well and reliably. A flat meplat will do more damage than a RN.
    I don't think I want a tumbling bullet, thank you very much--though I am sure that many bullets will tumble after hitting muscle and bone.
    The simple act of shooting paper will show that there is only a pinpoint hole where the RN went through and there is a noticeable hole with JHPs or FN--while the SWC cuts a full 0.452" hole in whatever it passes through. That is about where other rounds hope to expand to.
    Granted, JHPs are getting fantastically effective now-a-days, but a solid 0.452" hole through ANY target will have a considerable effect--thus, it would be good enough (not the best, that would be a JHP that actually expands--but effective none the less.
    The SWC is also a more effective bullet for small game like deer or other "man" sized objects.
    If you can guarantee a JHP will expand, and note that my post did not insult JHPs at all, then that becomes the SD bullet of choice.
    All I was saying is that the RN is NOT the most effective bullet for any target. It may fly a bit further, like most of us could actually take advantage of that in a standard gun, but it sure isn't that effective on target--paper, milk jugs, or flesh-and-blood. I simply have not found a RN to be as accurate as FN bullet out at 25-50 yards.
    The .45 was originally selected because without expansion, it was more effective than any smaller caliber.
    All of MY .45 SWC rounds are cheap--I reload.
    If you don't reload and just want to punch holes in paper, buy the least expensive ammo you can.
    If you want accuracy out to 50 yards, you will generally find it with 185gn JHP.
    If you want SD loads, buy the premium brands and practice with the RN of that weight bullet--after verifying that the premium rounds feed in your gun and are accurate.
    Again, why the attack? Are you suggesting that RN would be your choice over a FN or SWC or just that you can't imagine any bullet but a JHP being effective?

  4. #23
    boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen
    FWIW: this thread has devolved into nonsense, carry any caliber that you feel comfortable carrying, train yourself to be quick on the draw and accurate with the shooting because regardless of how large the round is if you are slow getting into the action and inaccurate once you start firing it really doesn't matter what round you use. SPEED AND SHOT PLACEMENT is where you should be focusing ALL your efforts, not on this foolishness.
    This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence.

  5. Caliber will only make a difference after the fight is over.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Agreed, nonsense and off-topic. As I stated before, the OP wanted to go cheaper for self defense rounds by using FMJ. Shooting at paper targets is not the topic of this thread and is not a valid method to evaluate a self dense round, JHP, flat-nose FMJ, or round-nose FMJ. That's why my earlier post. I agree that a flat meplat will do more damage, which is why I carry 10mm hardcast in the woods. However, I don't carry it on the street due to overpenetration issues. Also, reloading makes everything cheaper, but that was not the OP's question either.

    FWIW, a Federal HST .45 ACP 230 grain will expand to .98 inches and penetrate 12 inches in bare gel. It will expand to .87 inches and penetrate 13.5 inches in denim-covered gel. SGammo.com has this round for $0.64/round + shipping. It is a common law enforcement round. FMJ rounds cost about half as much, saving $16 per 50-round box. Those savings are not worth the risk.

    May be the OP is only shooting JHP, even for regular target practice, and therefore has a hight throughput of JHP. In this case, I would recommend switching to cheap FMJ for target practice, but carry decent JHP for self defense (like most people do).

  7. Are +p+ rounds recommended in most pistols? I have a Kahr cw9 that is approved for +p rounds, but I fear the +p+ would place too much stress and wear on the firearm. Any suggestions?

    Sent from my iPhone using USA Carry

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by lblainh View Post
    Are +p+ rounds recommended in most pistols? I have a Kahr cw9 that is approved for +p rounds, but I fear the +p+ would place too much stress and wear on the firearm. Any suggestions?
    +P rounds are typically loaded 10% above the normal standard pressure. +P+ is not a Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) standard, therefore no firearm is officially rated for it. +P+ rounds are loaded to whatever the ammunition manufacturer thinks it is safe with certain guns (typically compact or full size and not subcompact or micro pistols). Shoot it at your own risk. The Kahr CW9 is a micro pistol. I would not shoot +P+ though it. Kahr pistols are rated to +P. If you want a faster bullet, carry a gun with a longer barrel.

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