Capacity...
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Thread: Capacity...

  1. #1

    Capacity...

    Is it really that critical? I read a lot of forums and such and even hear it from my friends fairly regularly that capacity is a selling feature. ( usually when they are ragging me for my .45 instead of their 9mm)

    I carry a spare magazine. Lots of people do. But seriously, does it matter if your CC gun holds 30 rounds? If a self defense situation causes you to have to fire thirty times or more, you either a) really should have gotten more training or b) have stepped into a really bad situation with way too many guns pointed at you.

    I'm sure it is a preference and a comfort thing like almost everything related to CC but I think often it is just like little boys betting who can spit further. I'm satisfied with only having 8 rounds. If I need to use them, I'm comfortable enough with my ability to do the job in 1 round, with 7 to back it up worst case scenario.

    What do you think?

  2.   
  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confess View Post
    Is it really that critical? I read a lot of forums and such and even hear it from my friends fairly regularly that capacity is a selling feature. ( usually when they are ragging me for my .45 instead of their 9mm)

    I carry a spare magazine. Lots of people do. But seriously, does it matter if your CC gun holds 30 rounds? If a self defense situation causes you to have to fire thirty times or more, you either a) really should have gotten more training or b) have stepped into a really bad situation with way too many guns pointed at you.

    I'm sure it is a preference and a comfort thing like almost everything related to CC but I think often it is just like little boys betting who can spit further. I'm satisfied with only having 8 rounds. If I need to use them, I'm comfortable enough with my ability to do the job in 1 round, with 7 to back it up worst case scenario.

    What do you think?
    There are several schools of thought. I strongly recommend to my students to consider many different factors in deciding on what gun will be right for them. I'm one who believes that you should carry at least one extra magazine and as many magazines as you are comfortable carrying. Given a choice between a smaller caliber with a higher capacity and a larger caliber with less capacity, I'd choose the larger caliber. I firmly believe that your CC gun should be the largest caliber that you can handle as well as get adequate practice. My choice for CC is a Glock 23, which shoots a .40 s&w round. The round is approx. 1mm larger than a 9mm round and approx. 1mm smaller than the .45 acp round. This in my opinion is a happy medium. A standard capacity magazine holds 13 rounds, which is pleanty for most scenarios I would encounter as an armed citizen. The ammo is affordable, so I can get the range time that I need to stay proficient, and not very difficult to find. Many LE agencies have issued firearms that fired the 9mm round. Over the last couple of years, I've seen a trend in LE where they have been re-evaluating their choice of the 9mm as their primary duty gun. Several agencies have been converting to the .40 s&w, .45 GAP or .45 acp round. With today's criminal becoming more and more brazen and many of them high on some substance, it's become necessary for LE to adapt and go with a larger caliber. A lot of BG are even wearing body armor in the commission of their crimes. Most 9mm rounds are easily stopped by the body armor that BG have begun to wear. Though not much bigger, the .40 s&w, .45 GAP and .45 acp provide a slightly better chance in defeating the BG's body armor. I've seen cases where a 9mm round was deflected by your average automobile windshield. I like to be prepared for many different situations. With the number of crazies doing the "smash and grab", it's very likely I may one day find myself in the path of some BG behind the wheel of an automobile. I'm confident that my .40 s&w 165 grain Speer Gold Dot round will be able to punch through the windshield to "stop the threat" should I find myself in that situation.

    Keep in mind that there are several schools of thought and everyone has their own opinion and reasons why they choose the firearm that they carry. I find the selection of a personal SD firearm to be a personal one, and there's really no "wrong" answer provided that you have sound reasons for your selection and the firearm can properly do the job.

    So long as your .45 acp is a quality firearm that you're confident in using to save your life, then you've made a good choice. Whenever someone criticizes my choice of firearm, I like to hear their reasons behind their remarks. One thing to note is that I live in PRHI for at least part of the year, so under state law, I cannot possess any handgun magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds. With this being the case, my magazine capacity is only 2 more rounds than your 8 round .45 acp. I don't think the 2 rounds will make that big of a difference, but most will agree that having 2 more rounds than I'll need is a lot better than having 2 less.

    Ultimately the decision is up to you.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  4. #3
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    I usually carry a 1911 and 2 spare mags. Old habits. When I was a LEO, I carried 4 spare mags. That was because I responded to a "Disturbance", that suddenly turned into a hostage situation by two armed Thug Monkees, and was somewhat "pinned down" where I was for several hours. I had 2 mags with me, but after that decided to carry 4. I also decided to carry my AR-15 with me in the front seat area, and had a small shoulder bag with a couple of extra rifle mags and some spare stuff in it. That situation taught me to be better prepared, and that a seamingly routine "disturbance" can turn into a deep doo-doo situation without warning. That dosen't neccessarily apply to the citizen CCW average Joe. Your particular environment dictates what you carry.

    There are times when dress dictates that I carry a compact 1911, such as a Kimber CDP or Colt Officers ACP, I will carry one extra mag to reduce bulk and weight, but I ALWAYS carry a reload, for a malfunction drill if nothing else. Even if it's only a 38 snubby in the pocket, I always carry one or two speed strips in the other pocket.
    Most CCW and even Law Enforcement shootings are over within a couple of rounds. Back in the revolver days, the average of the vast majority of Police shootings was 2 or 3 rounds and within 12 feet. When Hi-Cap semi autos became the norm, the number of rounds fired increased by a few rounds, primarily because of the way Officers were taught to shoot and the officer knowing he had more rounds. The Average CCW permitee, will never need more than a few rounds to accomplish a self defense shooting, except in those extremely rare cases.

    All that being said, those who feel they need more capacity in a carry gun, generally have a certain scenario in their head, that tells them they need to have more rounds. Is it really neccessary? It's doubtful. BUT, more rounds are comforting and that is their decision. I personally carry a High Capacity pistol when I travel far from home on a road trip. Usually one of the 9mm or 45 ACP Glocks and at least 4 spare mags. This stems from the experience of being stuck over 1000 miles from home when 9/11 occurred. I had a 5 shot 38 J-frame and a speed strip in my pocket. We didn't know what was happening at the time, and I felt mighty insecure in that situation, being armed that way. Never again. When traveling, I carry a full size hi-cap service pistol, mainly for the "Oh ***** Factor", and a Bug Out/ Get Home Bag situation. It allows me to have more ammo in a scary situation being away from home.
    There's Something Goin' On Here, and it Ain't Funny!!!

  5. #4
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    High capacity is good, especially if you plan to miss a lot.
    Americas Epitaph
    "Since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done"

  6. High capacity is a security blanket and is purely psychological. TV and Hollywood's sold folks on the idea that you need half a case of ammunition in the magazine of a gun for it to be effective. That's a handy thing to have if you are killing zombies, but the advantage is negligible in a real world self defense situation. The problem is when folks panic and just start spraying and praying all of them bullets around and they have to land someplace.

    According to all the FBI statistics I've seen on the subject over the last 20 years, cops using Revolvers (5 or 6 shot) were the most accurate shooters and hit about half the time, followed by 45's and other single stacks (7-9 round capacity) at around 40-45% of the time and then the high cap 9mm/40S&W crowd at 1 hit in every 3 shots. Wheelgun shooters and those carrying .45's also averaged shooting about half the rounds the double stack shooters fired.

  7. #6
    I usually carry two guns. My HK and my Glock and an extra magazine for the HK. I may never need that much fire power. Then again I may never need any of it. I would though rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. A second gun is the fastest reload and as others have noted before on other threads it also gives you a gun to hand off to someone else that does not have one if things really go south on you. As a child I was a boyscout for only a short time but their motto "Be prepared" is something I believe in.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. #7
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    When it's the .357 I have 1 or 2 speed loaders extra.

    When it's the .45 10+1 loaded and one spare 10 rd mag.

    I also added the CTC Laser grip to the .45 and plan to add it to the .357 (like I'm made of money my wife says). Makes a big difference under rapid fire conditions.

    I drilled with 2 mags 5 rounds each. Fire 5, swap the mag and come back to target for the next 5. 100 rounds later... I Did better with the laser grip than without..

    Capacity is not the issue. Making as few shots as possible count...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  9. #8
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    I carried a S&W Airweight five shot .38 revolver for several months. Carried easily and concealed wonderfully but I could not get used to the thought of having only five rounds. With a 'multiple assailant" scenario which is common this close to the border, it left me precious little room for error and required the assumption that one or two hits per bad guy would actually stop the threat, something I really didn't believe with a .38 anyway. I never got fast at reloading it ... just a manual dexterity thing I suppose.

    So I decided to switch to my Glock G26 (10 + 1) loaded with Federal 147 grain HST personal defense rounds and back that with a 10+2 magazine. The G26 is a flawless shooter, I shoot it well and can reload quickly. I try to visit the range a couple of times a week and now that I have my accuracy conquered, I'm working on getting up the speed for the first shot and in-between shots.

    Truth is, while hoping I'll never need to use the weapon in self-defense, I do take considerable comfort in having more than a five round revolver should the need arise. I suspect if I lived in a different part of the United States, I might feel differently.
    I no longer trust my government to act on my behalf.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Confess View Post
    But seriously, does it matter if your CC gun holds 30 rounds? If a self defense situation causes you to have to fire thirty times or more, you either a) really should have gotten more training or b) have stepped into a really bad situation with way too many guns pointed at you.

    What do you think?

    Did some one say 30 rounds ?

    Check it out DUDE ... >>> http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/pmr-30.pdf <<<

  11. #10
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    Confess;
    Glock Fan gave you some great advice. Accuracy trumps capacity and caliber everytime. That being said, the largest caliber you can comfortably shoot AND will practice with is more important than how many rounds the magazine holds.

    I favor the 24/7 Pro C in 45acp mainly because it fits my hand better than any 40s&w or 45acp I've tried. It is very concealable, holds 10+1 and has a 13+1 back up magazine.

    I think most people here would recommend a spare magazine or speed loader for two reasons:

    ONE- Bad guys usually travel in packs.

    TWO- Magazines do fail from time to time. If this happens while in a SD situation, you'll want to be able to continue to fight until your safe.

    One magazine or 5rd cylinder should be enough in most situations. But, if you have to face more than one BG you'll be glad you have the extra ammo.

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