1911 Lowering hammer on chambered round - Page 2
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Thread: 1911 Lowering hammer on chambered round

  1. Quote Originally Posted by CapGun View Post
    This is part of something I posted but didn't get a response. Does anyone through the course or carrying and caring for a 1911 lower the hammer on a chambered round? What circumstances and how often?
    The following is part of what I previously posted.
    Regarding lowering the hammer. So at the end of the day you want to put your cocked and locked 1911 away. What to do?
    You lower the hammer very carefully or is it wise to try never to do that and instead you drop the magazine and re rack the slide ejecting the chambered round then lower the hammer?
    This is one of the things I need to feel comfortable before carrying a 1911. Your input for this 1911 novice is appreciated.
    BTW has anyone ever knocked the safety off accidentally?

    First off, check your State's laws to make sure you can carry chambered.

    Why would anyone want to lower the hammer on a chambered 1911? 1911's are not (some models vary) "live" with the hammer forward, but you can bet there's a possibility of a discharge if it's dropped (inertia firing pins should prevent most of that problem though), parts breakage from a drop can result in bad things. You simply cannot pull the trigger and actuate the hammer to the rear like a traditional SA/DA pistol, that's done by either chambering a round (actuating the slide) or manually pulling the hammer.

    It's meant to be carried "cocked and locked" or empty. Remember that physiological responses start if self-defense becomes a necessity. Your fine motor skills will drop-off heavily and pulling that hammer back is a fine motor skill.

    Then there's the issue of IF your grip happens to give on that hammer. BANG!

    1 of 2 ways a 1911 should be carried.

    1. Cocked and locked with the safety fully engaged.
    2. Empty chamber.

    The ONLY exceptions to this rule are the DA/SA 1911's out there or versions like the Para Ordnance LDA.

    Comfort is always an issue with any firearm. Practice and training are how you get over the confidence issue. Remember, seconds count and the more time you waste trying to get to "condition 1" (chambered and ready to fire), the more likely you are to become a victim in a close-in setting. Not everyone is comfortable carrying in "condition 1", even after receiving extensive training. My wife still has issues carrying chambered after 3 years of shooting with me...far too reliant on ME carrying.

    Some might tell you to carry a dummy round chambered until you're comfortable. I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but if you exercise this you're the dummy. It develops the bad habit of thinking there's always a dummy round in the chamber and runs the risk of unexpectedly having a live round in the chamber when YOU aren't ready for it. Of course, then there's the issue that you'll have to eject the dummy round manually and that alone can cause a 1911 to jam in an emergency situation.

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  3. #12
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    Well this was the type of feedback I was looking for. I am aware of not re-chambering the same round. Thanks for mentioning that Treo. Jtg452.. that is the reason for not carrying in condition 2. Good point about the fireing pin. Thanks
    6shootercarry, thanks for the detailed safety care of a 1911. Very good especially for a
    "Masshole" You must be a transplant! "Far away from the liberal loonies!" ... in MA? You must have found never never land.
    jtg452 >>> Thanks for being so honest about knocking the safety off. Pretty scary. When or how did you realize that? Sound? If you think a new holster contributed to that happening, what about a stiff Kydex holster? Does that contribute to an ongoing problem.
    Thank "all y'all! I learned that here yesterday

  4. #13
    I think some of you misunderstood the OP's question. I'm pretty sure he's aware that the best way to carry is Cond. 1, however it seems he is asking about putting the firearm to bed at night. Maybe he has another weapon for use in the home.

    Bottom line, once the weapon is cocked and locked, it is likely not going to stay that way forever. At some point, for some reason, you may have to decock it. What is the best way of doing this?

    I personally believe, emptying the magazine, and racking the slide is the best and safest way. Even if you've let down the hammer countless times before without incident, there's still that possibility for a negligent discharge. And in my mind, anything you can do to prevent a negligent discharge is what you should be doing.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscg4good View Post
    I think some of you misunderstood the OP's question. I'm pretty sure he's aware that the best way to carry is Cond. 1, however it seems he is asking about putting the firearm to bed at night. Maybe he has another weapon for use in the home.

    Bottom line, once the weapon is cocked and locked, it is likely not going to stay that way forever. At some point, for some reason, you may have to decock it. What is the best way of doing this?

    I personally believe, emptying the magazine, and racking the slide is the best and safest way. Even if you've let down the hammer countless times before without incident, there's still that possibility for a negligent discharge. And in my mind, anything you can do to prevent a negligent discharge is what you should be doing.
    ding ding ding! We have a winner! Not for your sage advice (which like other posts it is) but for putting my question is a clear concise manner as I should have! Thanks

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    So was the problem the mechanics of what you were doing or your failure to pay attention?

    All that said, if this is your primary carry gun why not just leave it in cond. 1?
    Mechanics were fine, my hands were greasy from working in a kitchen for 14 hours and the hammer slipped out from under my thumb. I ended up bleeding, too, when the Bo Mar rear sight sliced my hand as it stopped the gun from cycling as the gun's way of reinforcing that Condition 2 is a dumb idea.

    As my primary carry gun, it WAS left Condition 1. I have never carried Condition 2 and never will. That's a negligent discharge waiting for a place to happen, as my anecdote shows.

    I was undone by the scariest thing of all- somebody that means well but don't know a damn thing about what they are doing.

    My know it all but really knows nothing ex-brother in law took it upon himself to lower the hammer on a live round when he stuck the camcorder under my truck seat (he was told to put it in the passenger side floorboard when he got my keys, so the boy didn't follow instructions any better than he worked independently) when he dropped it off to me while I was at work. When I pulled the camcorder out from under the seat after I got off, I noticed the hammer on the 1911.

    Capgun,
    The issues I had with the safety getting knocked off was due to an ambi safety (a necessity for me, I'm a lefty) in a new leather holster. I discovered it when unholstering at night. It was a bit disconcerting but since the grip safety was still engaged and that particular 1911 had the firing pin block safety, too, I wasn't frantic about it. I don't need or like the big oversized safeties that look like a pair of gas pedals hung on each side of a 1911, so the ones in question are the Ed Brown tactical model (the thumbpad is about stock width but longer). The holster was leather, off the shelf with and thumbbreak (a Desantis pancake if I remember correctly) and boned to fit a stock gun (hence the problem being caused by the aftermarket safety). It was just tight enough initially to work the safety off if I wasn't paying attention to it. Once I broke it in, it stretched to accommodate the safety and never gave me any problems afterward.

    I don't fool around with Kydex, so I don't know if there would be any particular problems or not.

    Southernisms 101

    'All ya'll' is the all inclusive form of 'ya'll'. Ya'll can be singular or plural, so 'all ya'll' is a good way to let folks know you mean everybody.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by 6shootercarry View Post
    If you have to unload a 1911 and its in condition 1 then it requires the safety being deactivated. I Use the 1/2 cock position to bring the hammer down safely after mag has been removed. It's not the ideal thing to have to do...
    If that's what floats your boat....

    BUT, personally, I don't see the benefit of going to half cock and THEN racking the slide and recocking the gun as you eject the chambered round. IF your hand was to slip while working the slide, I'm not willing to gamble on the half cock notch saving me from a negligent discharge. With the hammer left at full cock, the resistance on the slide is slightly less (you don't have to recock the hammer) and if your hand slips, the hammer is locked at full cock already and is not a factor. No hammer movement, no big "BOOOM!" at an inopportune time.

    What I do is I leave the safety alone (meaning it is ON) and drop the mag. Once the mag is secured (pocketed, back in the mag carrier, on the table, ... whatever), I thumb the safety off and immediately rack the slide. At no time is my finger any where near the trigger. Once the gun is verified as cleared, I can lower the hammer as needed safely.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    Mechanics were fine, my hands were greasy from working in a kitchen for 14 hours and the hammer slipped out from under my thumb. I ended up bleeding, too, when the Bo Mar rear sight sliced my hand as it stopped the gun from cycling as the gun's way of reinforcing that Condition 2 is a dumb idea.
    I think the greasy thumb had more to do w/ the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    As my primary carry gun, it WAS left Condition 1. I have never carried Condition 2 and never will. That's a negligent discharge waiting for a place to happen, as my anecdote shows.
    The plural of anecdote is not evidence
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I think the greasy thumb had more to do w/ the problem
    And I really couldn't care less what you think but I would like to most humbly suggest that you stick to things that you are more used to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The plural of anecdote is not evidence
    The sentence in question is grammatically sound. I used the singular 'anecdote' and the verb is also in the singular form.

    Try playing English teacher with someone that doesn't understand the written form of the English language as well or better than you do.

    Now, if you wish to argue my statement that my personal experience as told in two different post above is proof of my declaration that 'Condition 2 carry of a single action semi automatic pistol is a very dangerous thing to do', I'd be more than happy to do so without hijacking Capgun's thread.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    Now, if you wish to argue my statement that my personal experience as told in two different post above is proof of my declaration that 'Condition 2 carry of a single action semi automatic pistol is a very dangerous thing to do', I'd be more than happy to do so without hijacking Capgun's thread.
    So are you willing to accept my personal experience (that I've been carrying a semi automatic pistol in condition 2 for years w/ no ill effect) as proof that my declaration it really isn't all that unsafe is correct?

    Again, the plural of anecdote is not evidence
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapGun View Post
    Well this was the type of feedback I was looking for. I am aware of not re-chambering the same round. Thanks for mentioning that Treo. Jtg452.. that is the reason for not carrying in condition 2. Good point about the fireing pin. Thanks
    6shootercarry, thanks for the detailed safety care of a 1911. Very good especially for a
    "Masshole" You must be a transplant! "Far away from the liberal loonies!" ... in MA? You must have found never never land.
    jtg452 >>> Thanks for being so honest about knocking the safety off. Pretty scary. When or how did you realize that? Sound? If you think a new holster contributed to that happening, what about a stiff Kydex holster? Does that contribute to an ongoing problem.
    Thank "all y'all! I learned that here yesterday
    If only in thought and in spirit... I'm west of the liberal nesting grounds.
    There is no way I'd live in the city, especially unarmed...

    I'm a tinkerer and former master automotive technician, now I do software test engineering so my insatiable urge to take things apart and put them back together just to see how they function and understand the mechanics, leads me to adventures. I read the manual then dive in. The Colt Officer's I have is used and was in need of some "care and maintenance". I took it upon myself to learn and do. For me it has always been the best way to understand the function of mechanical things... Does not qualify me as an expert however...

    You're welcome..
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

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