M&P with a safety, why not - Page 2
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Thread: M&P with a safety, why not

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    I know buy a Glock, the safety is between your ears!!
    I see that you are learning young padawan. Now ignore all this Sith & Wesson foolishness and get yourself a Glock.

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  3. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Georgetown, Texas
    Posts
    403
    ok, so here are my points of View.

    It looks to me like you are new and you are learning, there is nothing bad about that, actually you are doing better than most people, you are asking the right questions.

    You are trying to find out the PROS and CONS of manual safeties in an M&P (or any other gun).

    here are the points.

    1.- Comfort
    2.- Concealment
    3.- Safety factor
    4.- Reliability
    5.- Learning curve for the battery of arms
    6.- Stress vs motor skills


    Well first lets look at the dimensions of the gun itself and how are you going to carry it.

    The S&W M&P (9,40,45 - Full, compact or sub-compact) have almost the same thickness...(this is important because this will dictate how you are going to carry your gun "inside the waist band" (IWB holster) or "Outside the waist band"(OWB holster). it will also dictate how comfortable it is going to be to carry it.

    The M&P 9C without the manual safety has a physical width of 1.2" (actual mesurement) give or take.
    the M&P 9C with the manual safety has a physical witdth of 1.4" (not mention on the documentation).

    the manual safety will rub,poke and scrach your body(or under t-shirt) while you carry it. That is if you purchase a holster with out a protective surface (sorry forgot the technical term) that will shield the body from the gun. but even then that will not protect you from the uncomfortable poking...and if you are of the heavy set and purchase your pants to fit just right... well it is going to be really uncomfortable.

    NO we go and touch the concealment portion...that manual safety will show as a little bump all the time, when you bend, turn, streach, stand on your toes to reach something...yes day to day movement. You have a better chance of getting that snagged with your clothes...(sure you are thinking this will never happen...but it does). no matter how much S&W or any other manufacturer tries to minimize this it happends.

    The safety factor it a very personal and it varies from one individual to another one. I know that when I started I was not comfortable carrying with one in the chamber, this will come in due time because it has to do with the level of self trust in your avilities, experience and trust of your firearm, yes I said it you need to trust yourself, your firearm and your skills.

    some things that help are: try carrying with a snap cap in the chamber for a few months every day and that will give you confidance in you carrying your firearm...It help me also if you have a firearm that has a manual safety and you want to carry it "condition one" start with the snap cap until your comfortable with the manual safety of your firearm so you can walk, run, jump, do day to day activities with it, play in the park, etc. it will help you a lot.


    Reliability..well this is not just knowing that your firearm is going to go bang when your bugger hook pulls on the trigger...! it is also for you to know that your manual safety is going to be easy to engage / disengage and also to stay in the same place until you need to move it to and from both positions ( hope it is clear, if not met me know). this also referes to YOU, yes YOU.
    your need to be reliable, just like the manual safety, you need to know when to engage and disengage that manual safety. if you do not....WELL your not going to like the outcome of it. Be safe..if you want it with a manual safety train with it A LOT...!

    learning curve...yes I see lots of people that are at the range and never use the manual safety in there drills. they just put the safety on when they are ready to go home...This is the type of people that will carry and have issues in a dynamic and critical incident..(yeah you guess it right..Rob Pincus) sorry but I had to use his line because it is so true.. if you do not train for real world your going to be learning when it happends, and by that time it is going to be to late..!

    Stress vs. motor skills......Stress always wins....! so know this and train simple and efficient methods that always work..!

    I see so many people using the slide stop..yes it looks cool, but it is a fine motor skill that under stress will may not work for you, so many people think that they are going to be able to pull the gun and the person is going to walk away or they are going to be able to rack, point, aim and then press so the gun is going to go boom...learn to point and shoot...!
    also learn to defend yourself and give your self space to unholster.. make that space or learn to contact shoot your gun is your last line of defense...! your first one is your mind and then your body..yes the body your going to probably get physical...so imagine yourself trying to get one or more individuals that are hitting you, taking you out of balance, distracting you and moving at the same time...your fighting for your life, do you really think you have time to rack the slide, disengage a manual safety...point and shoot....OH ALMOST FORGOT...and be EFFECTIVE....!!!


    Yeah....no...an incident like this is way to common...so I'm not going to give you a definite answer... you need to make your own call on that one...I'm just making you think a little bit.

    Good luck sir. Sorry I typed a lot. Hope it helps. If you like the info let me know. I like feedback... :)

  4. stingray2100
    Wow...A lot to think about, Thanks for taking the time to reply in such a comprehensive manner.
    An optimist, is someone that doesn't know all the facts!

  5. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Georgetown, Texas
    Posts
    403
    Just trying to help... one post at a time :)

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by stingray2100 View Post
    Just trying to help... one post at a time :)
    Thank you for your efforts. Stay safe and carry often.

  7. #16
    IMO, the manual safety on an M&P is trying to modify it to be a different gun than it was designed to be. If you like it, go for it. For me, proper handling, proper holster and proper storage is all that is necessary for it to be safe.

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mwhaught View Post
    IMO, the manual safety on an M&P is trying to modify it to be a different gun than it was designed to be. If you like it, go for it. For me, proper handling, proper holster and proper storage is all that is necessary for it to be safe.
    Spoken like a Glocker!

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ozark Foothills of Southern Missouri
    Posts
    63
    I carry my handguns IWB in a Kholster and all of them (including my Glock) have a manual safety. It is just the way I trained in using handguns over the past 45 years (yes, I'm an old fart). I am 6'4" tall, 285 lbs. and I do not have a problem with the safety or the beaver tail on my CZ's and 1911's poking me in the ribs, etc. The Kholster takes care of that and protects the weapon from perspiration. I don't have a problem with printing, and no there is not a little 'bump' showing through my shirts, either open or tucked.

    The M&P is a fine pistol, and S&W designed it so it can please both schools of thought on the use of the safety or not to use a safety. It's a personal choice and if you train to take the weapon off-safe on the draw, it does not take one fraction of a second longer to draw. If you train to not use a safety, then this discussion is moot!

    Outfit yourself and the weapon properly and train to use the system that you desire to use and you'll do all right. Some people just get really worked up when you talk about a safety on a pistol, no reason to, but they do...

    Whatever way you choose to go with the safety issue, Train to it and YOU be safe! That is most important!!
    JPKirkpatrick
    USAF-Ret; NRA Life; CRPA Life; USA Carry Mbr;
    Oath Keepers Chrtr Mbr; USCCA Mbr; HGCA Mbr; Ret Former LEO

  10. I wish my wife's M&P had a safety. She's a little bit hesitant to carry it with one in the chamber without the safety. Would be nice to have it to help her feel more comfortable at first. Having a safety on my carry weapon made it a lot easier for me to get used to it (while I'm always *very* cautious to make sure the trigger doesn't catch anything while going into the holster, etc, having the safety there as another line of defense against an unintended discharge helps calm the nerves. :-) ).

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ozark Foothills of Southern Missouri
    Posts
    63
    Another reason to have the manual safety. Peace of Mind and a Confidence builder...
    Easy to use, un-obtrusive, and easy to disengage while in the drawing mode.

    Just as easy to put the pistol into use as is the SAA/Ruger Blackhawk single action revolvers. I've seen (and done some of it) the really great pistoleros drawing their Single Action Revolvers from high speed cameras that showed them drawing the revolver from the holster with three fingers on the grip, trigger finger extended and the thumb cocking the hammer in one fast blurry motion.

    Manual safeties can be dis-engaged just as easily and just as fast... It just takes training the muscles to do it from memory each and every time...
    JPKirkpatrick
    USAF-Ret; NRA Life; CRPA Life; USA Carry Mbr;
    Oath Keepers Chrtr Mbr; USCCA Mbr; HGCA Mbr; Ret Former LEO

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