Sig sauer p238
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Thread: Sig sauer p238

  1. Sig sauer p238

    Just recentley bought a sig p238 for pocket carry. cocked and locked. or cocked and carefully slide hammer forward?
    rick

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  3. Just recentley bought a sig p238 for pocket carry
    .

    I own one....I use a ankle holster...far be it from me to tell any one whats best but there are no "rounded" corners for pocket carry so I am not sure how comfortable it would be to shove that in a front pocket...that being said a "condition one" carry presents the problem with the hammer...being it's like a mini "1911" style of pistol as there is no "de-cocker" and its not bobbed...it has a good safety on it so I wouldn't just "ride the hammer"....other than that it is a great piece that can shoot the center out of a target at 15yards no problem.

  4. #3
    Sorry, but I would NOT use this firearm for pocket carry for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is that there are severe drawbacks to the two choices you mention.

    Please - get a holster of your choice and use that.
    H&K-Certified MP5 Operator and Instructor
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  5. #4
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    P238 owner

    I'm a P238 owner. I consider myself familiar with this model pistol. I own a Nitron, my wife has the Equinox, and my father also has a Nitron. FIRST to answer the OP, as it is intended to be, chambered round, cocked and locked, 24 hours of each of the 7 days a week. I'm a 6'2" 175LBS slender built person and if I'm wearing cargo shorts I have no issues shoving my P238 into my front pants pocket with a Desantis SuperFly holster to cover the safety and trigger. In regular fit Wrangler jeans, the Sig branded leather back pocket holster fits like a dream and nobody knows it's not a wallet. That being said, I do prefer the more traditional inside the waistband (IWB) holsters. I love my Desantis Cozy Partner. I purchased a Kholster so I would have a "tuckable" holster and due to being able to modify it however you like and still having lifetime warranty. I have found the Kholster is my most commonly used holster due to how thin it is.

    As far as cocked and locked goes or having a decocker; there is never a reason to take this gun off safety (short of a bad guy or target practice) or to decock it (should only be done after the gun is unloaded). The slide operates with it in the cocked and locked position allowing you to load, unload, disassemble, anything at all you could possibly need to do on a day to day basis. The ONLY time the Sig Sauer P238 .380ACP should have the safety off is if it is being fired, and it should never EVER be decocked unless it has already been unloaded for cleaning or storage. If you use the P238 the way Sig Sauer intended it, there is ZERO room for accidental discharge.

    As for the safety, not only does it disable the hammer release from the trigger, it has a firing pin block to prevent the pin from moving so anything that would enter the hammerwell area and strike the pin cannot cause a discharge. Even though the safety is very well made and very positive in the position selection, any mechanical safety on any gun can fail, the only "safety" you can count on is the brain in your head. The only true safe gun is one without a finger (or similar) on the trigger. If you do pocket carry, do so with a pocket holster made to cover both the trigger and safety and for an added bit of safety don't have anything else in the pocket like keys that could slip in around the edges of the holster and into the trigger area or kick the safety off. Any holster you choose for any gun should always cover both the trigger and safety.

    Anyone with ANY safety concerns of the P238 have not familiarized themselves with the weapon. It is truely one of the safest pistols made (the absolute safest in this hillbilly's opinion). With a large percentage of accidents happening when a firearm is loaded or unloaded, a pistol that can be loaded and unloaded with the safety enabled is a plus. From all my reasearch, I've never found another pistol with manual safety that the slide could operate while the safety was enabled. I could be wrong, but I think the P238 is the first and I find it to be really stupid that it's not a common feature among all semi-auto pistols.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter:211829
    Sorry, but I would NOT use this firearm for pocket carry for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is that there are severe drawbacks to the two choices you mention.

    Please - get a holster of your choice and use that.
    I carry the 238 in my front pocket no problems. But I am always open to learning more, what are the variety of reasons its bad?

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I carry the 238 in my front pocket no problems. But I am always open to learning more, what are the variety of reasons its bad?
    Crickets. Yea, that's it, the crickets don't like it.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I carry the 238 in my front pocket no problems. But I am always open to learning more, what are the variety of reasons its bad?
    You didn't mention if it was in a holster or not. If not, then there are consistency problems in that each time it is drawn, it may be in a different location.

    Drawing consistently the right way every time is important, in my opinion, to ensure there is no fumbling when you really need it.

    Drawing from the pocket when sitting is problematic. You also didn't mention if it was front or rear pocket. Of course, front pocket is much harder.

    While the safety on the P238 is better than a standard 1911 (again, my opinion), there is still the possibility that it can come off while in the pocket and not using a holster.

    Plus, the smaller the gun, the more you have to get out there and practice. The small sight radius makes accuracy more difficult to obtain. Most civilians do not practice as much as they should if they carry concealed.

    Lastly, again - my opinion - the .380 is an underpowered cartridge and is not suitable -- in most situations -- for consistent success in self-defense circumstances.

    Bottom line - if the P238 works for you and you are confident the .380 caliber it will do the job you want it to do, and you can consistently present it and fire in about 1.5 to 2 seconds from a sitting position, and you are accurate with it out to at least 10 yards firing as fast as you can -- great!

    But -- again, my opinion -- the .380 cartridge is not adequate for self-defense, and pocket carry is not as good as strong side hip, even if it's carried in a pocket holster.
    H&K-Certified MP5 Operator and Instructor
    FBI-Certified Police Pistol and Shotgun Instructor
    State of New Mexico-Certified Concealed Carry Instructor

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Sorry, but I would NOT use this firearm for pocket carry for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is that there are severe drawbacks to the two choices you mention.

    Please - get a holster of your choice and use that.
    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    You didn't mention if it was in a holster or not. If not, then there are consistency problems in that each time it is drawn, it may be in a different location.

    Drawing consistently the right way every time is important, in my opinion, to ensure there is no fumbling when you really need it.

    Drawing from the pocket when sitting is problematic. You also didn't mention if it was front or rear pocket. Of course, front pocket is much harder.

    While the safety on the P238 is better than a standard 1911 (again, my opinion), there is still the possibility that it can come off while in the pocket and not using a holster.

    Plus, the smaller the gun, the more you have to get out there and practice. The small sight radius makes accuracy more difficult to obtain. Most civilians do not practice as much as they should if they carry concealed.

    Lastly, again - my opinion - the .380 is an underpowered cartridge and is not suitable -- in most situations -- for consistent success in self-defense circumstances.

    Bottom line - if the P238 works for you and you are confident the .380 caliber it will do the job you want it to do, and you can consistently present it and fire in about 1.5 to 2 seconds from a sitting position, and you are accurate with it out to at least 10 yards firing as fast as you can -- great!

    But -- again, my opinion -- the .380 cartridge is not adequate for self-defense, and pocket carry is not as good as strong side hip, even if it's carried in a pocket holster.
    You specified you wouldn't use "this" handgun for pocket carry seemingly indicating there was some issue beyond the tired old arguements that are totally off topic from what was asked.

    By your further explanation it is apparent that you're simply against any .380 and pocket carry; which makes me wonder why post a half thought out comment on a thread that is totally irrelevant to what condition to pocket carry a .380 in? Say what ya mean and mean what ya say. There is nothing at all about THIS handgun that makes it wrong for pocket carry other than your opinions. Gobs of folk have pocket carried for years, and have done so sucessfully contrary to your opinions. OP asked for opinions and debate on chambered cocked and locked, or chambered and uncocked. The fact that it's a pocket carry .380 matters none at all.

    I personally love the freedom to drop my sig in my sweatpants pocket for a late night run to get a gallon of milk. Saves me from having to put real pants on with a belt and all that jazz. I reckon since it was brought it up and it's never ever been discussed before, I'll say it doesn't matter the gun, it should always be holstered unless shooting it, cleaning it, or stowing it. Any holster worth two hoots covers the trigger, and if the gun has a manual safety it should be covered as well. I use a Desantis Superfly. It can be used in the front pocket and comes with a reversable/detatchable "antiprint" panel that makes it look like a wallet when carried in your back pocket or a cargo type pocket. I am 100% confident in my ability to utilize this tool in this manner quite effectivly, and for it to live up to all my expectations. I'm yet to find any takers that are brave enough to test these assertions even though some guy on the internet said a .380 is no good and even if it were I'll never be able to get it out of my pocket.

    There is one thing was said above by Shooter and RobertW said I think should be addressed. 10 to 15 yards is excessive for "self defense". I don't care what pistol you have, if you're a citizen taking shots at 30 feet, you're taking too big of a liability risk (and ya ain't too smart in doing so in my opinion). Practicing at greater distances is fine, but true self defense situations mostly happen at a third of that range or less (and you should honestly be practicing the tactical self defense type situations you'll be most likely to encounter in the wild). At that type of range a .380 is ideal for a citizen with a good self defense round because there isn't as much chance of shooting through the target and inflicting collateral damage. When you take into consideration that if you have to shoot someone, it's an 80%+ likelihood they will be within 3 feet from you, anything larger than a .380 and it is guaranteed that you will be causing damage to anything behind the bad guy (you better hope it's not someone's kid). With today's self defense loads, they make a .380 the size of a P238 a very potent weapon within it's intended range... At anything at 30 feet or less, I can't put enough cloth, leather, down, or any combination of the bunch over a wetpack, gel, or water jugs to keep a Hornady Critical Defense round from expanding to a half inch. 30' is the outer limits of the consistancy range (and consequently the effective range) of any caliber of pistol with the barrel length of a P238. If you want to be consistant at that sort of range you need more barrel length, not more powder. LEO has us paying for insurance to cover their collateral damage, we're responsible for our own. Use your head before taking long shots and putting down the tools made for a specific task. Every gun has it's use and every caliber is better at some specific something than each of the rest. The questions you need to ask yourself are: is having the one shot stopping power worth chancing someone else that you can't see behind your intended bad guy target? AND: wouldn't it be more fun and productive to practice gobs so you have the confidence to plop 7 shots in the bad guy within a couple seconds and have ZERO worry about what was behind them.

    Back to thoughts for the OP, with the way the P238 is designed, it is just simply safer to carry it chambered, cocked, and safety on. To uncock the gun with a round in it requires the safety to be off whereas previously stated you can load and unload it all day long with the hammer cocked and the safety on. When decocking it there is always a chance of something outside of your control causing you to slip when dropping the hammer,(stroke, coronary, muscle twitch, earthquake, lightning strike, etc...) so why bother when theres that kinda risk involved? In a tactical/stress situation of having to cock it under fire you could also slip and get a premature fire causing collateral damage elsewhere other than the bad guy. It is impossible to aim and cock at the same time efficently and cocking a gun takes much more time than flipping the safety off. Cocking takes longer than flipping the safety because the hammer has more 'travel' than the safety lever to be operated, not to mention the additional pressure it takes throughout the full travel of the hammer cock versus only requiring pressure for half of the travel of the safety switch before it "flips" off. Another thought, God forbid you are in a confrontation and make a mistake and forget a step in readying your weapon. If you were to forget to cock the weapon and don't realize until after taking aim, you're really wasting time as you will have to cock then reaim. The Sig P238 safety is made so if it is flicked off while the trigger is currently squeezed, it fires as the safety kicks off. If you make "mistake and failure correction" part of your practice, flicking off the safety with your left thumb while holding the trigger and maintaining aim is actually quite easy from a two handed weaver-stance type hold on the weapon and an easy fix for forgetting to flick it off during the draw. My muscle memory practice routine is as follows, draw, safety off with my right thumb just as the gun comes to target and joins with my left hand, fine tune target, double tap. Put the safety back on and reholster. Repeat for a minimum of 100 rounds a week. When I'm practicing I typically go with my wife or my dad or both, we make sure there are plenty of distractions and conversation so occasionally one of us will forget to flip the safety... OPPORTUNITY KNOCKS, don't huff and stomp your feet cause you messed up, use it as a chance to practice holding it on target and getting that safety kicked off before you let go of the trigger in angst. Once you learn to react quickly to these failures, you're one step closer to being able to save your own life or the life of someone you love one day. While on the subject, I practice the draw, safety disengage, and dry fire ten times before loading up the weapon as I strap it on every day because in my opinion a muscle memory reaction will be more likely to save you above caliber and brand and everything else.

    That's all that comes to my mind for the moment, but to sum it up short and sweet: They say God and John Browning both intended 1911 style weapons to be carried in condition one; cocked and locked. Sig Sauer agreed and made it safer to do so. My advice is do it by the book.

  10. There is one thing was said above by Shooter and RobertW said I think should be addressed. 10 to 15 yards is excessive for "self defense". I don't care what pistol you have, if you're a citizen taking shots at 30 feet, you're taking too big of a liability risk (and ya ain't too smart in doing so in my opinion). Practicing at greater distances is fine, but true self defense situations mostly happen at a third of that range or less.
    I am speaking to the abilities of the pistol...I obviously like the pistol I own one and carry it all the time...pocket carry... well that's up to you I never said don't...I see it as a matter of comfort... where you put it is your choice.

  11. #10
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    I, too, do not advise bare pocket carry of that kind of pistol, but for far different reasons.

    First, I have nothing against the .380 for CIVILIAN self defense use. Saying it is unsuitable for the majority of self defense situations is simply pure and utter bull**** and really diminishes my desire to believe anything further from such a person. The .380 is unsuitable for a few situations. If you are the kind of guy that likes to go into biker bars and rile up the clientele, or if you are the kind of guy that answers a "bump in the night" at home with a .380 rather than a 12 gauge shotgun, then it sucks to be you. It is not the fault of the .380. However, if you are the average civilian going about the average daily life, a .380 (or any other pistol) will be suitable for MOST situations that you will find yourself in. In fact, if your defensive strategy is good, and you refrain from trying to be a sheepdog, you probably will never need to take that pistol out of your pocket other than to clean it and train with it.

    Second, I do not oppose pocket carry. I do it all of the time, both pants pocket and coat pocket. However, I also use either a shrouded hammer revolver or a pistol that is fired from the hammer down position. I also, when possible, use a pocket holster, although I drop a S&W 438 Bodyguard into my coat pockets enough times without one.

    Why don't I like cocked and locked in the pocket? Again, I have a couple of reasons. The first is snagging the hammer on the draw. I can draw a hammered weapon out of my pocket MOST of the time without snagging it. But ONE snag at the wrong time can be fatal. I am not saying that only the cocked and locked pistol is susceptible to this; it is not. I have a devil of a time drawing my S&W Model 36 and 2" Model 10 from the pocket without snagging them, even with a good pocket holster. At least the revolvers give me the option to fire through the pocket.

    Second is the possibility of getting something in between the hammer and the firing pin. I little lint in the wrong place, or a coin, will ruin your day. This can, of course be overcome by keeping your cloths clean and refraining from carrying change in the pocket that houses your weapon, but I have cleared lint from my Bodyguard after a long period of carrying even though I am careful to keep my pockets clean. Due to the shrouded hammer and double action of the Bodyguard, the lint was no problem. I would not have wanted to have the same lint down where the hammer pivots on a cocked pistol.

    Granted, both of the above are possibilities and by no means certainties. They can be overcome, and the slight additional risk involved may be well withing someone's tolerance level given their defensive strategy. If so, go for it! I also would have no problem carrying the particular SIG in question, in a holster. But that is MY personal preference and I would not in any way consider it more than that. Also, personally, I don't carry ANY pistol cocked and locked, including the 1911. I have no words of wisdom as to why this is the best way to do it because it probably is not. I spent the first part of my carrying days carrying single action revolvers, and I qualified for my CCW using an Uberti Cattleman .45 Colt. I tend to cock everything I carry on the draw, with exception, for obvious reasons, of my Glocks. And, since very few of my weapons even have safeties, I have a nasty tendency under stress to forget to disengage the safety. That is why I do not carry even the pistols equipped with safeties "on safe". Strictly hammer down for me. Do I recommend that for everyone? NO! If all you shoot are 1911 type pistols, carry them cocked and locked if you want. Just don't give me the BS that John Browning intended them to be carried that way. They were intended to be carried hammer down on an empty chamber as were all military pistols of the day, and if you ever studied the older holsters that the 1911 and the Hi-Power were issued with, you would know that (not to mention the hammer that the original 1911s, which I own one, were equipped with). However, how a pistol was designed 100 years ago and how it is commonly used today are two completely different issues and should not be part of the current discussion, for which I apologize.

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