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Thread: Basic defense?

  1. #11
    Thee reasons why I would not chose a shot gun as a home defence.

    1) To long and cumbersom. If you have to move from room to room it is easier to grab than a had gun kept close to the body.
    2) It can be heavy for a woman to shoulder.
    3) If you have to make a percise shot and a love one is near the BG it is almost impossible to fire and not hit the loved one you are trying to protect.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  2.   
  3. Chiefyman, I have the same situation at home as you mentioned. I've been an active shooter for many years, but my wife and her mother are not shooters. They are interested in having protection but they aren't interested in doing much in the skill building department beyond familiarization.

    For people such as these the weapon needs to be one wherein they need do nothing more that identify the target, point the gun, and pull the trigger.

    Caliber should be no greater than .38 spec. or 9mm. I don't want them to be in a state of semi-shock from the noise, muzzle blast, and recoil so that they can not fire a second or third shot if need be. A weapon fired inside a room multiplies all of those distractions by three. (non-scientific)

    Finally the weapon should be easy for them to shoot. It should fit nicely in their hands. It should point naturally.

    I selected S&W K frame revolvers. I have a model 10, three model 15's, and a Colt Police Positive (all are .38 spec., and all have 4" barrels.) that are each stashed in a different part of the house so that wherever they are, the women have instant access to a gun.

    Personally, I think the smaller J frame .38/357 revolvers are a little too difficult for a novice to shoot well. I like the J's, and I have several. But my wife couldn't hit a five gallon can at ten yards with a J frame, yet she had no trouble hitting with the K frame guns.

    A double action only semi-auto would probably serve just as well, but they tend to be more expensive. Besides, I already had the revolvers.

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by STILLdKING View Post
    While I agree that a shotgun is one of the best home defense guns around, I personally load mine with Bird shot (upland game loads). And before the flaming starts, let me explain...
    Firstly, Birdshot has stopping power. Try this for yourself, take a piece of plywood at 25-30 feet and shoot it with 7-1/2 or 8 birdshot. All of the pellets go into the board and most go through. For me, this is near equal to the longest straight distance inside my home so it has enough penetrating power to really mess-up a BG.
    Second, being in a city setting I don't want missed rounds going through the walls of my house and into the houses of my neighbors. There's where the bird shot works great too. It loses a LOT of energy with distance and probably won't go through my outside walls. If it does it'll, more than likely, just bounce off the neighbors outer walls leaving nothing more than a small mark.
    What I'm trying to get at is Buck shot will penetrate TOO MUCH and I don't want to hurt anyone else in my neighborhood while trying to stop an attack inside my home.

    Ok, that's my reasoning and if there are any dissenting opinions, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
    Thanks
    JC
    Personally, I disagree with your ballistics assertions re: the plywood and BG stopping power. But I'll let the guys at the Box o' Truth try. All I have are words...they have photos to back it up with. Try checking this out, and let us know your thoughts on birdshot after you've seen their work.

    ***WARNING***
    This website is not condusive to productive work. It's fun to go through all their demonstrations. The next thing you know, you have just killed 2 hours. DO NOT VISIT UNLESS YOU CAN DEDICATE YOUR TIME TO WASTE.

    www.theboxotruth.com

    For their shotgun demos, click here:

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
    Victory rewards not the army that fires the most rounds, but who is the more accurate shot. ---Unknown

  5. #14

    Hmmm...

    Well, I guess I'm gonna have to do a bit of testin' on my own. Besides, it gives me a reason to make a(nother) BoT and try some different rounds.
    I remember being suprised myself when the #8 shot I used penetrated the 3/4" plywood at around 25 feet, so I'll have to try & recreate that.
    As a side note, the BoT tests talk of the spread being 2-1/2" to 3-1/2" at 12 feet. What I remember when I tried this was the holes were about 1-1/4 to 1-3/4" across. The lack-of-spread may have been a factor in the pellets carrying enough energy to effect a bit more damage.
    IDK... Again, it's an excuse to drag out the SG's and fire-off a few this weekend.

    Thanks for the link (back) to the BoT. Nice to see they've still been keeping busy.
    JC
    John C.
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those that understand binary and those that don't.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I agree. If you want to keep it simple, stick with a small to medium size revolver.
    I agree.

    In the event they need to use it, it needs to just work. Point and shoot (just like the fully automatic cameras). No external safeties, no need to remember to work the slide or pump a round into the chamber.

  7. #16
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefyMan1234 View Post
    Hey... so this is the first time ever looking into/considering getting a weapon.
    Just a word to the wise and for future reference... the NRA frowns on the use of the word weapon to describe a rifle or pistol. Weapons are used for military purposes or, in other cases not military- a weapon is often times used for things not associated with a legal citizens right for the the purpose of bearing arms (self defense, sport, collector, etc.).

    Call it a gun, firearm, pistol, heater, gatt, call it anything you like but unless you are in the the military and using it for that purpose- call it anything but a weapon.:idea:
    Last edited by doublenutz; 03-31-2008 at 01:15 AM.
    MΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublenutz View Post
    Just a word to the wise and for future reference... th NRA frowns on the use of the word weapon to describe a rifle or pistol. Weapons are used to for military purposes or in other cases not military a weapon is oftentimes used for things not associated with a legal citizens right for the the purpose of bearing arms (self defense, sport, collector, etc.).

    Call it a gun, firearm, pistol, heater, gatt, call it anything you like but unless you are in the the military and using it for that purpose- call it anything but a weapon.:idea:

    +1 for doublenutz!

    It's difficult enough defending our 2A rights, lets make the task a little easier by taking the negative image out of the minds of folks who may be "anti" or "undecided". It's not a very difficult thing to do, but you'll be amazed at how folks react differently to the word "firearm" vs. the "w" word.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  9. #18

    Basic home defense gun

    I'm new here, but not new to the shooting community. I agree with those who recommended a medium frame, 4 to 6" barrel .357 Mag or .38 Spl revolver (6-shot) loaded with .38 Spl +P hollowpoints, especially the 158 grain lead HP round. This type of gun is easily handled by those who are not especially adept with handguns, and it is very effective in the hands of an experienced person.
    I keep my Ruger GP-100 .357 revolver available as the *house gun*, at my residence. My wife is not into guns, and is reluctant to even go the the range with me (she has her pepper spray and remote panic button for the monitored alarm system). But if she was pressed into using the revolver, it is the gun I'd feel the best about her using.

    I do not feel that a shotgun is the best home defense gun. As mentioned earlier, you can easily be disarmed of a longarm in close quarters. It is difficult to effectively hold an intruder at gunpoint with a shotgun AND call 9-1-1 on your telephone (cordless, I hope). I also feel that a 12 ga pump or autoloading shotgun, loaded with 00 buck, can be difficult to master for those persons of small stature or with physical limitations.

    Lastly, a SureFire incandescent tactical light (w/ high-power lamp), is an important bedside tool to have available.

  10. #19
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    Connecticut
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Nothing beats a shotgun up close." Considering the age range of potential end-users, check out PascalF's avatar. Pistol caliber carbines make great defensive tools. For a simple yet effective CCW go for a Glock 17 or 19. Both are 9mm, easier to handle than 40S&W.
    Legalize Freedom!

    building an AR on my blog

  11. #20
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    Thumbs up A Zillion little Wound channels

    Quote Originally Posted by STILLdKING View Post
    While I agree that a shotgun is one of the best home defense guns around, I personally load mine with Bird shot (upland game loads). And before the flaming starts, let me explain...
    Firstly, Birdshot has stopping power. Try this for yourself, take a piece of plywood at 25-30 feet and shoot it with 7-1/2 or 8 birdshot. All of the pellets go into the board and most go through. For me, this is near equal to the longest straight distance inside my home so it has enough penetrating power to really mess-up a BG.
    Second, being in a city setting I don't want missed rounds going through the walls of my house and into the houses of my neighbors. There's where the bird shot works great too. It loses a LOT of energy with distance and probably won't go through my outside walls. If it does it'll, more than likely, just bounce off the neighbors outer walls leaving nothing more than a small mark.
    What I'm trying to get at is Buck shot will penetrate TOO MUCH and I don't want to hurt anyone else in my neighborhood while trying to stop an attack inside my home.

    Ok, that's my reasoning and if there are any dissenting opinions, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
    Thanks
    JC
    The wound you are talking about is called a rat hole. Each pellet makes an independent wound channel that tends to bleed profusely. Considering how many pellets there are in 1 and 1/8 oz's of #8, no surgeon in the world can fix that kind of wound properly.

    Canis Lupus can probably explain this a lot better with his military medical background.
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

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