What a find,Type I Polish Radom P-35 - Page 5
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Thread: What a find,Type I Polish Radom P-35

  1. #41
    As I suspected... various Types are being quoted without a clear definition... that we have found yet.

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gray Court, SC
    Posts
    2,934
    Some define type I as prior to occupation and others define type I as the first run after Nazi occupation. I'm inclined to think that type I is after Nazi occupation and the expert that looked at mine called it a type I. Prior to occupation he called them a Polish P-35 not a type I.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  4. Radom Vis 35 P35(p)

    Hi Guys, sorry to but in... I have a dilemma, I just took possession of a Radom Vis 35 P35(p) according to the description; take down latch, decocker, slot for extended stock, it has the waffenamps marking, WaA77... this tells me it is a Grade I (type I) first series of Radom made during the German occupation 1939-1940. So the serial number should be Axxxx to Dxxxx. The Radom I have has all matching serial number. The dilemma is that the serial number is a 3 digit serial number (numeric) No prefix letter. Can any one of you help me on this? I'm trying to understand why this Radom has only a 3 digit as a serial number...being from the German occupation...and it's not because the letter is erase or worn out...the pistol is in good condition.

    J. Connery

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gray Court, SC
    Posts
    2,934
    Welcome to USAcarry, J. Connery. You've got me on that one. I'm going to a Gun Show Saturday and I'll ask the expert if he's there this weekend. I'll post what I find out.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  6. #45
    Well, I'm no expert, therefore I may be wrong. Sounds to me like you may have a pistol made before German occupation but still in house when the germans took over. If memory serves me correctly, only the ones made before german occupation didnt have the prefix number. If so, I'm jealous!!

  7. I thought about that to, that it might be a pistol made before German occupation but still in house when the germans took over... but I thought that Polish pistol pre-German occupation had the Polish emblem.

  8. #47
    Gents, as far as I know (could be wrong - won't be the first time), there are only 2 books on the P35 - the first by Robert Berger(1981) and the second by Terence Lapin (2004). Short of any other info, I refer to those two books. This is partailly a continuation of an exchange RedHat and I had a month or so ago. There seems to be no accepted standard regarding "Types" of P35s and in fact neither Berger or Lapin refer to "Types". Berger refers to Group 1 (Pre-War with Poish eagle), Group 2 (early war thru SN E8000), Group 3 (mid war - SN E8000 thru approx Z5000) and Group 4 (late war - SN Z5000 thru K9000 including some P35s produced entirely by Steyr in Austria) - after Z, they started over with the alphabet, so there are some late war P35s with SNs that appear to be early production, but the pistols are clarly different. Berger claims that when the Germans took over the FB factory and restarted production in 1940, they started with SN 1 and went thru 10000 before starting the alphanumeric SN system (AXXXX, etc). If that is true, then one can only assume that J Connery's P35 with only a 3 digit SN with no letters is one of those early pistols.
    Now, referring to Lapin's book, he classifies P35s into only 3 groups (no types): Early War (1940-42), Mid War (1943-44) and Late War (1944-45). Lapin claims that the Germans started with SN 001 and continued thru 12000 before going to the alphanumeric (AXXXX) system. OK, so one expert says 1-10000 and the other says 001-12000. Considering the chaos of the time and the 23 years difference between the writing of the two books, its close enough for me. I think it is safe to say that J Connery's P35 is an early-early-war (pre alphanumeric SN) and while it may not have the pre-war Polish eagle, it is possible, maybe even likely that it is built from pieces made before the war.
    One last factoid of interest. Berger apparently had some discussions with P Wilniewczye, one of the P35 designers prior to his death and Wilniewczye said that contrary to popular belief, there was NO involvement of Belgian FN engineers in the design of the P35, so the story that the P35 was based on the BHP design is without merit. There is no question that some design aspects of the 1911 auto were incorporated into the P35 and Wilniewczye (try typing that 3 times) said they did borrow some details from the 1911 because by that time, the patents on the 1911 were expiring or had expired.
    Lastly (almost) - RedHat, regarding our previous exchange on the subject of "Types", I still can't find any consistent definition of "Types" for the P35. Lots of definitions, but no consistency, so if we are unhappy that we have a Group 2 (Berger's definition) P35, we can use Lapin's definition and say we have an "Early War" model.
    And LASTLY for sure, if Robjams is still out there, back in March, I said I didn't think any of the P35s had blued barrels, but I find I was mistaken. According to Berger, some (not many) of the early Group 2 pistols had blued barrels and recoil spring assemblies. Would be interesting to know if J Connery's P35 has a blue barrel. I'd say that is a rare P35.

  9. #48

    Radom P35 again

    Should have run the spell checker... getting too old to be writing detailed stuff after 11pm.... hmmmm

  10. To Pugster. I knew that all Polish P35 (with Polish Eagle) had numeric serial number. When the Germans took the FB factory, what I understood is that they started with alpha-numeric serial numbers. What you are saying sounds right and makes a lot of sense. I read some where that the first group of Germen occupation P35 (with decocker, take-down latch and shoulder stock slot, slide markings: “F.B. Radom VIS Mod. 35 Pat. Nr. 15567″. Waffenamt acceptance mark and “P-35(p)”) that they produced, was approximately 60,000 of them. From SN : Axxxx to E8xxx and plus, what your saying, the numeric one SN :0001 to 10000 or 12000, that would make it right about the 60,000. From what I know, Germen where very consistent and I would assume that serial numbers of P35 never went more then 4 digits (i.e.: 9999 or A9999).
    By the way, I do not have a blued barrel on my P35, never the less, I’m very happy with it. Thanks for the info.

  11. #50
    To J. Connery - There is a bit of uncertainty wrt annual production numbers (at least between the two main reference books). Lapin says there were about 60,000 produced in 1940 (001-12000 plus A0001 - Dxxxx) - thats something over 50,000, but again, close enough. Berger says German production at FB in 1940 was only 12,239. I think we have to take into account the fact that Lapin's book was written after the Iron Curtain came down and he had access to much more info than Berger did (presumably). As for the Germans consistency, Ich habe gearbeitet im Deutschland (i worked there) and the Germans are nothing if not meticulous and consistant.
    I think that with both "expert" authors claiming that the early German production SNs started at 001 without the letter, as illogical as that may be, it is probably reliable.
    Do you have the holster? I do and mine has the runic SS letters stamped inside. While I may know a little about the Radom P35, I know much more about the Holocaust, especially the connection Radom (the city) and the P35 have to it.

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