One in the chamber? Or not!! - Page 35
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Thread: One in the chamber? Or not!!

  1. #341
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,429
    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    No, we are talking about needing a loaded gun RIGHT THE H$%L NOW and having an unloaded one instead-and a gun that won't shoot when you flick off the manual safety (if there is one) and pull the trigger is UNLOADED.

    Quit getting wrapped up in the details of an intentionally vague, hypothetical situation and picking nits while you end up with fleas.

    You want details, fine. I have the driver's side door open because I'm about to place the 3 grocery bags (1 with a gallon of milk, 1 with a loaf of bread, 1 with 2 dozen eggs because they were on sale) into the truck, with the door blocking my escape route to my left. There's a car parked beside me, blocking my exit to my rear. Immediately to my front is my truck. The perp is standing at my rear bumper (on my right) with a 'Garvey Jiffy Cutter' brand box cutter. The truck is a early 2000's Ford F150 extended cab, so he's 10 to 12 feet away.

    With a loaded (meaning a round is chambered) Para Ordnance P13, I've got 2 options.
    1.Give him my wallet.

    2. a) Draw with my (left) strong hand (keeping it at waist level with the gun pointed at the center of his pelvis because he's close and I want him to go straight down) as I-
    b) toss the gallon of milk, 2 dozen eggs and loaf of Colonial King bread at him with my right. If they make contact, fine, if not it is a distraction.


    I HAVE practiced shooting 1 handed and have been trained by a 30 year veteran of military special operations and law enforcement who gets hired by the federal government to train their field agents (you've seen him on TV as an expert on several weapons related shows as well and he's been a fight choreographer for a Hollywood movie as well) in instinctive shooting and have practiced it religiously over the years. I know that at 12 feet or less, I can push his belly button so far back against his back bone shooting a .45 from the hip that the coroner will need a separate search warrant to dig it out.

    If he sees the gun and heads out at a high rate of speed, good. If he comes at me, he knows he's just brought a knife to a gun fight. If he comes at me, I carry a CRKT M-21 (4+ inch blade with opening assist and it WILL shave) in my front off side pocket, too, and I'm a better knife fighter than gun fighter.

    With an unloaded (empty chamber) Para Ordnance P13, I see 2 options.

    1. Give him my wallet.

    2.Try the same thing as above with the added step of having to chamber a round at the beginning-with my off hand occupied.

    As I see it, the chances of it working is, maybe, 1 in 10 at best. I know, I can hop on 1 foot and chamber a round by press checking the slide on my boot heel.

    Wait, the P13 is a Commander length slide and barrel (4 1/4 inch barrel)- the slide won't go back far enough to strip off a round when you press check it and I'm wearing Wolverine work boots like I do every day at work. The heels are SOFT and will give too much anyway.

    Never mind, I better just give him my wallet-with my paycheck, ID, CCW permit, Social Security Card, credit cards, ATM cards, photos, address, and everything else he needs to steal my identity.
    If you carry your social security card in your wallet, you deserve to have your idenity stolen.

    If you are going to carry a semi auto with one up the pipe, you have to trust your firearm.

    I read somewhere if you trust your carry pistol you will sleep with it under your pillow with a round in the chamber.

    My carry firearms, I will sleep with, I trust their safety features.

    If you do sleep armed, make sure you are alone, because if something happens, you will have plenty of splaining to do, about shooting your wife while she slept.

    "really officer, the guy on usa carry said to sleep with my weapon".

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    No, we are talking about needing a loaded gun RIGHT THE H$%L NOW and having an unloaded one instead-and a gun that won't shoot when you flick off the manual safety (if there is one) and pull the trigger is UNLOADED.

    Quit getting wrapped up in the details of an intentionally vague, hypothetical situation and picking nits while you end up with fleas.

    You want details, fine. I have the driver's side door open because I'm about to place the 3 grocery bags (1 with a gallon of milk, 1 with a loaf of bread, 1 with 2 dozen eggs because they were on sale) into the truck, with the door blocking my escape route to my left. There's a car parked beside me, blocking my exit to my rear. Immediately to my front is my truck. The perp is standing at my rear bumper (on my right) with a 'Garvey Jiffy Cutter' brand box cutter. The truck is a early 2000's Ford F150 extended cab, so he's 10 to 12 feet away.

    With a loaded (meaning a round is chambered) Para Ordnance P13, I've got 2 options.
    1.Give him my wallet.

    2. a) Draw with my (left) strong hand (keeping it at waist level with the gun pointed at the center of his pelvis because he's close and I want him to go straight down) as I-
    b) toss the gallon of milk, 2 dozen eggs and loaf of Colonial King bread at him with my right. If they make contact, fine, if not it is a distraction.


    I HAVE practiced shooting 1 handed and have been trained by a 30 year veteran of military special operations and law enforcement who gets hired by the federal government to train their field agents (you've seen him on TV as an expert on several weapons related shows as well and he's been a fight choreographer for a Hollywood movie as well) in instinctive shooting and have practiced it religiously over the years. I know that at 12 feet or less, I can push his belly button so far back against his back bone shooting a .45 from the hip that the coroner will need a separate search warrant to dig it out.

    If he sees the gun and heads out at a high rate of speed, good. If he comes at me, he knows he's just brought a knife to a gun fight. If he comes at me, I carry a CRKT M-21 (4+ inch blade with opening assist and it WILL shave) in my front off side pocket, too, and I'm a better knife fighter than gun fighter.

    With an unloaded (empty chamber) Para Ordnance P13, I see 2 options.

    1. Give him my wallet.

    2.Try the same thing as above with the added step of having to chamber a round at the beginning-with my off hand occupied.

    As I see it, the chances of it working is, maybe, 1 in 10 at best. I know, I can hop on 1 foot and chamber a round by press checking the slide on my boot heel.

    Wait, the P13 is a Commander length slide and barrel (4 1/4 inch barrel)- the slide won't go back far enough to strip off a round when you press check it and I'm wearing Wolverine work boots like I do every day at work. The heels are SOFT and will give too much anyway.

    Never mind, I better just give him my wallet-with my paycheck, ID, CCW permit, Social Security Card, credit cards, ATM cards, photos, address, and everything else he needs to steal my identity.
    Great tactics on confrontation scenario...

    ..adjusting to your weapons mechanics of operation and/or your apparel, may dictated a carry style, i carry Glocks. Here's a tactic i want you to try just for the hell of it, but do it DRY, make sure your weapon is safe/unloaded, and i stress SAFE.

    Do not try this with speed (at first), go through the motion slow for precision being the objective. Position your holster with the trigger at the seam of your pants leg. If you can, try it with a straight vertical draw (up) holster, not slanted forward. With your arms at rest in a natural down position you should be able to bring your arm straight up, grabbing your weapon and pulling it out of the holster with a fluid nature motion.

    I don't like holsters with slanted forward positions that causes the wrist to break, and then having to bring your gun forward (momentum) with the release, then having to break the wrist (lock)t forward again to draw on target, and sighting (point shooting/flash picture/aim).

    ok.. back to the draw, when you pull your weapon out of the holster, bring it straight up to the arm pit with the elbow pointing to your rear with your forearm horizontal, and your weapon pointed at the target or down range. The bottom/side of the Magazine rest against the body for stability (if needed). Your weak hand/arm is place in a pledge of allegiance to the flag type position. Your weak hand in that position will prevent shooting your weak hand/arm at the start of training this tactic. if you carry a chambered weapon this is the quickest way to put bullets on target and allows a better weapon position for point shooting.

    If you carry NON-Chambered... as you bring your weapon up out of the holster up to your arm pit, your left hand racks your weapon with fluid motion pointing on target/down range...WITH EXTREME SPEED... IF YOU PRACTICE IT. Rack once the gun is in the arm pit position and the weak hand is naturally moving to the upper strong side chest.

    Your weak hand can be used for RACKING, repelling BG, directing, and the option to extend the arms and go to a two hand grip. I have practice and trained using two hands to push off a bad by stepping into him, striking him in the upper chest, then drawing my weapon, rack... and shooting stepping back. Do Not step back while drawing/racking, that's not the time you want to stumble/fumble.

    Like all tactics it may seem awkward at first...

    For the record i don like internet training, hands on is the best, detailing words can get confusing, but i did the best i could.

    I PERSONALLY found this tactic great for close-up, quick, self-defense draw of a chamber or non-chamber weapon when you have no choice but to stand-fast... but its not a cure-all... Moving and Cover saves lives and should be the start of defensive tactics.

    PRACTICE DOESN'T MAKE PERFECT... PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. Good Luck

  4. Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    If you carry your social security card in your wallet, you deserve to have your idenity stolen.

    If you are going to carry a semi auto with one up the pipe, you have to trust your firearm.

    I read somewhere if you trust your carry pistol you will sleep with it under your pillow with a round in the chamber.

    My carry firearms, I will sleep with, I trust their safety features.

    If you do sleep armed, make sure you are alone, because if something happens, you will have plenty of splaining to do, about shooting your wife while she slept.

    "really officer, the guy on usa carry said to sleep with my weapon".
    I've carried my Social Security card on my person (I use a front pocket wallet with a money clip) ever since I had the original stolen in a burglary back in the '90's. Back then, it was more of an inconvenience. Now, they can ruin your life for decades to come.

    I do trust the gun's safeties to work as advertised and designed. It's only got 2 manual (thumb and grip) and the series 80 internal safety. You have to screw up pretty bad to make it go BOOM! negligently. I had a factory ambi safety (I'm left handed, so I needed it) put on by a gunsmith and he did it right. It goes on and off positively and stays where you put it. If I have to ride the safety on a 1911 to keep it off, it's time for a 'smith to get to work replacing a worn part. If you need thumbshields because you have to ride the safety to keep it from coming on during recoil, you need to contact a competent gunsmith to replace the worn safety.

    And I HAVE slept with that gun under my pillow. It's sitting on my nightstand right now in an IWB holster with the spare mag in a clip on mag pouch beside it. (Both made by Don Hume. The holster is the PCCH model and the mag pouch is the D-417.)

    gunsite,
    Nice sidestep of the issue at hand-again. I have no intention of carrying a gun for self defense that isn't loaded (I repeat -again- a gun with no round in the chamber is unloaded for all intents and purposes) and ready for immediate use.

    I've carried a holster on the hipbone quite often. When I use my Beretta Tomcat in a OWB holster (another Hume holster, this one the JIT slide), I carry it there. I don't do it with larger guns because the butt sticks out too far to be easily concealed. At Cowboy Action shoots, both of my SAA's are worn in that position (with the top of the holster even with the point of the hipbone) in a custom twin belt double rig (left gun in a holster on one belt and the right is in a holster with it's own belt as well). Those holsters are actually canted slightly muzzle forward. I've found that that the slight muzzle forward rake when I'm drawing a SAA puts the grip in a more natural position for my draw.

  5. gunsite,
    Nice sidestep of the issue at hand-again. I have no intention of carrying a gun for self defense that isn't loaded (I repeat -again- a gun with no round in the chamber is unloaded for all intents and purposes) and ready for immediate use.

    *********


    I agree, and don't advocate carrying a non-chamber weapon as i've said in many posts, i don't know what you want me to say, or what i'm supposing sidestepping.

    What do you wanna ask me?

  6. If you don't have one in the chamber...Your doing it wrong.

    How's that for a first post...

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Hardcorp View Post
    If you don't have one in the chamber...Your doing it wrong.

    How's that for a first post...

    GOOD first post.

    I carry a gun.
    Guns are loaded.
    I don't carry an Airsoft toy gun or blank firing pistol with the orange tip painted black....
    I carry prepared because I'm PRO-LIFE .... mine, my family's, and those around me.

  8. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by RPB View Post
    GOOD first post.

    I carry a gun.
    Guns are loaded.
    I don't carry an Airsoft toy gun or blank firing pistol with the orange tip painted black....
    I carry prepared because I'm PRO-LIFE .... mine, my family's, and those around me.
    Here, here!

  9. #348
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lake Worth Fla.
    Posts
    12
    I carry my taurus pt11 with one in the chamber and safety on.The safety
    switch is up for safe,down for fire,so it's off as i draw my pistol my thumb just hits it.
    But i also carried at times with a rd chambered and safety off because of long trigger
    pull.I feel comfortable like that also.It's just everyone is different but I feel like the
    rest when it's time you need to be ready to fire

  10. Quote Originally Posted by sdf2000 View Post
    I have seen this posted on some of the other boards. But I am still not clear! It still comes down to personal preference. Do you have one in the chamber? Is the safety on? Or none in the chamber???
    I carry with one in the chamber and the safety on. I do not want to shoot my foot or any other body part off that I may not finished with yet. I seem to me that their is + and - no matter what you do. So let me have it, what is best????
    I always carry one in the chamber with the safety off. My S&W M&P .40 doesn't have a safety, which means it shoots as long as one is in the chamber with or without the magazine.

    It boils down to personal choice.
    Sam Ragsdale
    AGCM(AW/SW) USN-Ret

    NRA Life Member

  11. You have to think about drawing and firing with one hand and it may be your weak hand. It would be ashamed to take a non-lethal shot in your weak arm and not be able to chamber a round. Kind of defeats the purpose of carrying. I always have one in the chamber and will not carry anything with a safety. I am not concerned about an accidental discharge while holstered or while drawing. Chambering a round may be just the amount of time the attacker needs to get a round or two in you.

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