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Thread: Storing loaded clips

  1. Short answer, no. Mag springs are COMPRESSION springs, which means they are designed to be compressed. As the other posters have said, the metal fatigue comes from loading/unloaded over a period of years, even decades. Unless you get a mag with a defective spring that slipped thru QC, storing loaded will not affect the spring.

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  3. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    St. Louis/Missouri
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey1235 View Post
    Thanks for the info, I apreciate it. Most of my handguns are either revolvers or the break open type. This Hi Point C9 is the first semi-auto one that I've bought. What I was basing my question on is an after market large capacity magazine that I bought for a Rugar 10/22. It is a 25 round magazine. To make a long story short I left one loaded for a few days and noticed that when I went to fire it, it fired five or six shots and stopped. I looked down and the other 19 rounds were still way down in the magazine. I returned that one and haven't had a problem with the replacement. I wondered if this was a common problem or what. (as far as hitting the range. . . I have to kick myself because I live on an old farm. I do most of my shooting in an old, empty pasture that has a great back stop. I don't do anywhere near enough practicing. I have actually been kicking around the idea of trying to find some interested gun owners and setting up a private range but i've never done it. I've always figured that any insurance requirements would put a stop to the idea.)
    Most after market magazines for the 10/22 are not worth a damn. I have tried Butler Creek, Shooters Ridge, Eagle etc...

    The only decent one I have found is made by Tactical Innovations.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same. - Ronald Reagan

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MADnMO View Post
    Most after market magazines for the 10/22 are not worth a damn. I have tried Butler Creek, Shooters Ridge, Eagle etc...

    The only decent one I have found is made by Tactical Innovations.
    yeah I have some composite mags from TI for the 10/22. decent mags... but their customer service isn't the greatest.
    You can have my freedom as soon as I'm done with it!!!

  5. #14
    As the guys have pointed out,
    'CLIPS', often called 'Stripper Clips' simply hold bullets for insertion into a MAGAZINE...

    That magazine might be internal in the rifle, as with SKS, Mauser 98, ect.
    Or it might be a detachable MAGAZINE, like with semi-automatic pistols or rifles.

    I know we are nit-picking with saying 'SEMI' automatic and 'Magazines' instead of clips,
    To say 'Firearms' instead of 'Guns', ect.
    But there are people out there that would jump on ANY chance to limit ownership.
    Correct terminology is the first step to education is to be specific so we don't wind up with a 'Gun Ban' trying to slip by congress instead of a 'High Capacity Magazine' ban...

    Remember, the entire 'Black Talon' ban was stired up over one coroner's assistant being quoted as saying about a California workplace shooting,
    "She was shot 11 times with 'Black Talons', She didn't have a chance."

    The corner's assistant was firearms literate, he knew a Black Talon from a piece of cake,
    And his point was the victim was shot 11 times, but it was twisted by the anti-gun media into a crusade against one of the best self defense rounds and hunting rounds ever built!

    Now, not one word about the mental patient that was allowed to purchase a handgun out of his home state (Utah),
    Not one word about the 3 months of threats and break-ins the guy had done without the police doing anything about it,
    Not even the fact that the woman had called police and told them the guy was following her to work, and called again when she got to work, but police didn't respond.

    Besides, 11 rounds into anyone would pretty much do the job, but the BULLETS were blamed!
    Now I can't get the best penetration/stopping round every made simply because the media blamed the BULLETS that were used!

    Loose lips sink ships...
    Use the CORRECT terminology, put the emphasis on the BAD GUYS, show responsible, even tempered arguments even when the 'Anti-Gunners' get wild and out of control,
    (Let THEM look like the raving lunatics in the sound bites!)

    Stalking laws have come a long way,
    Domestic violence threats and workplace threats are taken seriously now,
    But you STILL have to be vigilant of what you say and do or the 'Sound Bite' might show up on 'CNN' or 'You Tube' at exactly the WRONG moment!

    ----------------------------------------------

    Now, for your questions,

    Most magazines use MUSIC WIRE springs, which DO COMPRESS over time, and they DO loose some of the spring tension every time they are compressed.
    I can provide details since we have a dyno where I work for determining EXACTLY that very thing,
    And we DO produce springs for industry and aircraft, which have SUPER tight tolerances in regards to cycle life...
    (You REALLY don't want an air craft engine spring to quit mid flight!)

    Since they have to be compressed and then you expect them to come back to full extension to push bullets up,
    You have to think of 'Cycles Of Compression'.

    Music wire springs DO LOOSE tension every single time they are compressed, so eventually they will NOT return to a point where they function with sufficient force to do the job you want them to.

    We ran into this a lot in the 70's with racing engine valve springs.
    Compression cycles in a 500 mile race at 7 to 10 thousand RPM, the music wire springs would fail to hold the valves shut against turbo or supercharged engines,

    Turns out, music wire, no matter how good the grade, wasn't ever intended to be COMPRESSED!
    Music wire was intended to be STRETCHED in a straight line and hold tension!

    ------------------------------------------------

    What you need for proper compression in springs is a Chrome Silicone type steel.

    Chrome Silicone has some 'Memory' for it's exact shape, and will cycle about 400,000 times longer and still function.

    In the early parts of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the M-9 (Baretta 92) wouldn't fire more than once or twice before it failed.
    The problem was the music wire magazines had been in storage too long, and the spring wouldn't push the next bullet in the mag up fast enough.

    We scrambled around here to make several hundred chrome silicone springs to replace the music wire springs and the pistols would then cycle again.

    The military has since stopped issuing 'Chessman' magazines, and started refitting the mags with chrome silicone springs.

    We DID NOT get the contract, although we shipped several thousand chrome silicone springs to the troops for free just to keep them in the fight while the military was 'Assessing' the 'Issue'...

    (It's an 'Issue' when you are safe at home every night, and you are doing 'Studies' to see what's going on,
    It's a PROBLEM, and a BIG ONE, if you are the troops getting shot at and can't return fire because the &^*% pistol won't function!)

    ----------------------------------------------

    Same issue with the three gas rings on the M-16 bolt.
    The 'Music Wire' those gas rings were made of open up in a horse shoe shape, tails gouge the bolt carrier sealing surface, and the rifle no longer functions reliably...
    (Made by the lowest bidder!)

    I sent several thousand (about 6,000 in all) one piece chrome silicone gas rings to our troops,
    Problem solved.

    As the one piece ring expands with heat, there are no sharp tails to splay out and gouge the bolt carrier sealing bore,
    And there isn't any way for dirt/grit/desert sand to migrate past the gaps in the rings and score up the bolt carrier sealing bore.
    You won't find hard carbon built up between the tails like you do with standard 3 piece rings since there are no gaps, no hard carbon buildup gouging the carrier bore.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with music wire springs in standard production pistols since your life doesn't count on that spring daily,
    But in a combat situation, or something you are setting up for law enforcement, military, home defense,
    I strongly recommend you use Chrome Silicone springs in the slides, in the magazines, ect.

    Chrome Silicone based springs are about 400 times (Cycles) more reliable than music springs,
    The price is only slightly higher,
    And this is one of the 'Combat Gunsmith' secrets that no one seems to know...

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    And just for the guys that think a Music Wire spring will live loaded for years...
    I stumbled onto a loaded magazine from my military days stuffed into a box of crap at my mothers home when she passed away...
    Baretta 92 mag loaded with military ammo, which I don't normally shoot, so I know it's been there since I lost it.

    Looks like it had been loaded about 10 years or a little more,
    When unloaded, the follower wouldn't reach back up to the top lips of the magazine anymore.

    I also found several M-16 mags unloaded, still in the factory packaging, and the springs were all weak in them from nothing more than being in the mag body, unloaded, all those years.
    Wouldn't reliably cycle in my AR's, but when the springs were swapped out for new springs, they worked fine.

    If you are in doubt, get yourself about 4 or 5 mags, rotate them as you clean the firearm of your choice so the same mag doesn't stay loaded all the time...
    Without a chrome silicone spring, I won't trust one to be loaded past about 90 days,

    There is a reason why we only put 28 rounds in a 30 round mag, or 18 rounds in a 20 round mag in the 'Old' days,
    The mag springs simply wouldn't take the full compression, and if the rifle jams in a fire fight, it's a lame, clumsy club. You would be better off with a 'Louisville Slugger' than a jammed side arm!

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Honolulu, HI & Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    2,797
    Quote Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
    As the guys have pointed out,
    'CLIPS', often called 'Stripper Clips' simply hold bullets for insertion into a MAGAZINE...

    That magazine might be internal in the rifle, as with SKS, Mauser 98, ect.
    Or it might be a detachable MAGAZINE, like with semi-automatic pistols or rifles.

    I know we are nit-picking with saying 'SEMI' automatic and 'Magazines' instead of clips,
    To say 'Firearms' instead of 'Guns', ect.
    But there are people out there that would jump on ANY chance to limit ownership.
    Correct terminology is the first step to education is to be specific so we don't wind up with a 'Gun Ban' trying to slip by congress instead of a 'High Capacity Magazine' ban...

    Remember, the entire 'Black Talon' ban was stired up over one coroner's assistant being quoted as saying about a California workplace shooting,
    "She was shot 11 times with 'Black Talons', She didn't have a chance."

    The corner's assistant was firearms literate, he knew a Black Talon from a piece of cake,
    And his point was the victim was shot 11 times, but it was twisted by the anti-gun media into a crusade against one of the best self defense rounds and hunting rounds ever built!

    Now, not one word about the mental patient that was allowed to purchase a handgun out of his home state (Utah),
    Not one word about the 3 months of threats and break-ins the guy had done without the police doing anything about it,
    Not even the fact that the woman had called police and told them the guy was following her to work, and called again when she got to work, but police didn't respond.

    Besides, 11 rounds into anyone would pretty much do the job, but the BULLETS were blamed!
    Now I can't get the best penetration/stopping round every made simply because the media blamed the BULLETS that were used!

    Loose lips sink ships...
    Use the CORRECT terminology, put the emphasis on the BAD GUYS, show responsible, even tempered arguments even when the 'Anti-Gunners' get wild and out of control,
    (Let THEM look like the raving lunatics in the sound bites!)

    Stalking laws have come a long way,
    Domestic violence threats and workplace threats are taken seriously now,
    But you STILL have to be vigilant of what you say and do or the 'Sound Bite' might show up on 'CNN' or 'You Tube' at exactly the WRONG moment!

    ----------------------------------------------

    Now, for your questions,

    Most magazines use MUSIC WIRE springs, which DO COMPRESS over time, and they DO loose some of the spring tension every time they are compressed.
    I can provide details since we have a dyno where I work for determining EXACTLY that very thing,
    And we DO produce springs for industry and aircraft, which have SUPER tight tolerances in regards to cycle life...
    (You REALLY don't want an air craft engine spring to quit mid flight!)

    Since they have to be compressed and then you expect them to come back to full extension to push bullets up,
    You have to think of 'Cycles Of Compression'.

    Music wire springs DO LOOSE tension every single time they are compressed, so eventually they will NOT return to a point where they function with sufficient force to do the job you want them to.

    We ran into this a lot in the 70's with racing engine valve springs.
    Compression cycles in a 500 mile race at 7 to 10 thousand RPM, the music wire springs would fail to hold the valves shut against turbo or supercharged engines,

    Turns out, music wire, no matter how good the grade, wasn't ever intended to be COMPRESSED!
    Music wire was intended to be STRETCHED in a straight line and hold tension!

    ------------------------------------------------

    What you need for proper compression in springs is a Chrome Silicone type steel.

    Chrome Silicone has some 'Memory' for it's exact shape, and will cycle about 400,000 times longer and still function.

    In the early parts of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the M-9 (Baretta 92) wouldn't fire more than once or twice before it failed.
    The problem was the music wire magazines had been in storage too long, and the spring wouldn't push the next bullet in the mag up fast enough.

    We scrambled around here to make several hundred chrome silicone springs to replace the music wire springs and the pistols would then cycle again.

    The military has since stopped issuing 'Chessman' magazines, and started refitting the mags with chrome silicone springs.

    We DID NOT get the contract, although we shipped several thousand chrome silicone springs to the troops for free just to keep them in the fight while the military was 'Assessing' the 'Issue'...

    (It's an 'Issue' when you are safe at home every night, and you are doing 'Studies' to see what's going on,
    It's a PROBLEM, and a BIG ONE, if you are the troops getting shot at and can't return fire because the &^*% pistol won't function!)

    ----------------------------------------------

    Same issue with the three gas rings on the M-16 bolt.
    The 'Music Wire' those gas rings were made of open up in a horse shoe shape, tails gouge the bolt carrier sealing surface, and the rifle no longer functions reliably...
    (Made by the lowest bidder!)

    I sent several thousand (about 6,000 in all) one piece chrome silicone gas rings to our troops,
    Problem solved.

    As the one piece ring expands with heat, there are no sharp tails to splay out and gouge the bolt carrier sealing bore,
    And there isn't any way for dirt/grit/desert sand to migrate past the gaps in the rings and score up the bolt carrier sealing bore.
    You won't find hard carbon built up between the tails like you do with standard 3 piece rings since there are no gaps, no hard carbon buildup gouging the carrier bore.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with music wire springs in standard production pistols since your life doesn't count on that spring daily,
    But in a combat situation, or something you are setting up for law enforcement, military, home defense,
    I strongly recommend you use Chrome Silicone springs in the slides, in the magazines, ect.

    Chrome Silicone based springs are about 400 times (Cycles) more reliable than music springs,
    The price is only slightly higher,
    And this is one of the 'Combat Gunsmith' secrets that no one seems to know...

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    And just for the guys that think a Music Wire spring will live loaded for years...
    I stumbled onto a loaded magazine from my military days stuffed into a box of crap at my mothers home when she passed away...
    Baretta 92 mag loaded with military ammo, which I don't normally shoot, so I know it's been there since I lost it.

    Looks like it had been loaded about 10 years or a little more,
    When unloaded, the follower wouldn't reach back up to the top lips of the magazine anymore.

    I also found several M-16 mags unloaded, still in the factory packaging, and the springs were all weak in them from nothing more than being in the mag body, unloaded, all those years.
    Wouldn't reliably cycle in my AR's, but when the springs were swapped out for new springs, they worked fine.

    If you are in doubt, get yourself about 4 or 5 mags, rotate them as you clean the firearm of your choice so the same mag doesn't stay loaded all the time...
    Without a chrome silicone spring, I won't trust one to be loaded past about 90 days,

    There is a reason why we only put 28 rounds in a 30 round mag, or 18 rounds in a 20 round mag in the 'Old' days,
    The mag springs simply wouldn't take the full compression, and if the rifle jams in a fire fight, it's a lame, clumsy club. You would be better off with a 'Louisville Slugger' than a jammed side arm!

    Not nit pick or anything, but since you brought it up, you load "cartridges" into a magazine, not "bullets". A "bullet", along with the "case", "primer", and "powder charge" make up a loaded "cartridge".

    For the record, "Beretta" is the firearms manufacturer, and "Baretta" is the television character.







    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  7. #16

  8. #17
    I don't believe it hurts the magazine at all either. I do make a practice of rotating the rounds on the weekends in the magazine of my carry gun just in case gun oil may have gotten to the top one. It just makes me feel better to know that I have a "fresh" round in place on a regular basis.

  9. #18
    handgonnetoter Guest
    I read an article, in a gun magazine, that was written by an engineer at Wolff Springs. He said what wears out a spring is not being compressed or extended, but the constant up and down motion from loading and emptying the magazine. I have some magazines that are twenty years old and they still work fine.

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hudson, Iowa, United States
    Posts
    85
    Thanks for all the info, we had this discussion a few months ago at work...this puts the myth to rest as far as I can tell.

  11. #20
    Hmmmmm. Also answers my question(s) on the matter.

    Logic dictates the case of spring weakening, but design makes up for the "potential problem".... apparently.

    I think I'll stick to my two loaded and one in a "rest" mode modus operandi. Rotated after my monthly shooting practice.

    I've always gone under the assumption that if 20+ rounds can't resolve the situation..... I'm in deep kim chee anyway.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

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