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Thread: Double Taps

  1. I submit that since Jeff Cooper is the originator of the term, "Double Tap" that it's only proper to utilize his definition of it, which is two, distinct sight pictures, the second of which is the "flash sight picture" mentioned previously.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by whiptrackercracker View Post
    I've have people whose best approach to double taps is a hard grip, some it was perfect trigger control, others perfect breathing technique. As with all shooting, you should have a bit of everything,.... :)
    There are many ways to shoot a handgun. Some of them are even good ways, but a great many more clearly are not the best ways to shoot a handgun.

    But unless one sees a truly skilled shooter in action, one may think that their way IS the best way........and never know different.

    The higher you go in skill level, the less variance you'll see in shooting techniques. Why? Because top level shooters use the techniques that work best. You can't use a sub-standard technique executed flawlessly against a shooter that's using a better technique flawlessly.

    My primary interest in handgun shooting revolves around putting shots on target fast. What works in slow-fire may be interesting, and some elements may transfer over, but you can have crappy technique executed well in slow-fire and never know that it is, after all, a crappy technique.

    For example, if your techinque doesn't address recoil recovery, then shooting slow-fire won't reveal that important fact.

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  4. #13
    echo_5 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by David E View Post
    I submit that since Jeff Cooper is the originator of the term, "Double Tap" that it's only proper to utilize his definition of it, which is two, distinct sight pictures, the second of which is the "flash sight picture" mentioned previously.

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    I stand corrected. I was taught and have practiced "hammer pairs" for years; being told it was a "double tap". As for technique, a hard grip is where it's at. This method carries over to all other handgun platforms. I currently shoot a polymer frame 40S&W with a stiff trigger. You gotta man up to get two FAST and ACCURATE shots. A soft grip and steady trigger finger may work on a steel frame 9mm with a linear trigger.

    -my $.02

  5. Quote Originally Posted by echo_5 View Post
    As for technique, a hard grip is where it's at. This method carries over to all other handgun platforms. I currently shoot a polymer frame 40S&W with a stiff trigger. You gotta man up to get two FAST and ACCURATE shots.
    So..........how fast can you do that? The time between shots is.... ?

    I mean, in real time, not a speculative assessment.

    BTW, I love your tag line !

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  6. #15
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    Unhappy just my two cents

    The first time I was trained on the M-9 it was slow fire every round in the center of mass...dominus ominus you may now carry a 9mm on duty.

    The second time I qualified with the Berretta it was with turning targets and 2 seconds the draw and "put 2 in the center of mass".

    The last time I shot the M-9 on active duty...the whole class was taught "2 to the chest and one to the head makes an insurgent extremely dead." This was practiced on every course of fire (over barricade, around barricade, etc.)

    Here is my dilema. If I shoot a BG using what I was trained in the USAF, I will get hung out to dry for excessive force.

    PLEASE HELP ME TO BREAK THIS HABIT!
    Last edited by festus; 03-13-2008 at 07:04 PM. Reason: syntax
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  7. Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    the whole class was taught "2 to the chest and one to the head makes an insurgent extremely dead." This was practiced on every course of fire (over barricade, around barricade, etc.)

    Here is my dilema. If I shoot a BG using what I was trained in the USAF, I will get hung out to dry for excessive force.

    PLEASE HELP ME TO BREAK THIS HABIT!
    Excessive force? You're already trying to KILL THE GUY ! How much more "excessive" can you get ?

    The "two to the body, one to the head" is the called the "Mozambique Drill," as coined and developed by Jeff Cooper. (again!)

    It's origin stems from this account: Mike Rousseaou, one of Cooper's students, faced a terrorist who was armed with an AK- 47 rifle in Mozambique. When the terrorist advanced on Mike, he drew a Browning Hi Power 9 mm pistol and fired two shots at the terrorist. But the two shots failed to stop the attacker.

    Mike then took a targeted shot for the terrorists head, ending the encounter. Thus, Mozambique Drill can be referred to as a 'defensive shooting drill'. The Mozambique Drill is designated in order to counter a loss. If an attacker cannot be stopped after having fired two rounds or in case the attacker is in a protective vest. Then the shooter must be very precise with his shots.

    since that is where it was originated by one of Jeff Cooper's students. It works very well for a specific circumstance. But as with many drills or tactics developed for specific circumstances, it has been convoluted (by those that THINK they know what they're doing,) to address situations that it was never intended to do.

    It is NOT supposed to be a "everytime you fire your gun, fire two to the body and one to the head" technique as you were apparently taught.

    If you suspect the badguy is wearing a vest, that changes things, but for most of us, that's not really an issue.

    If the badguy doesn't STOP after shooting him in the body, that again changes things. Others have cited a pelvic shot to be easier to make and also causes the badguy to at least stop charging.

    If you have multiple badguys, that's a bad time to try to employ the Mozambique on each one before going to the next. A far better technique is to utilize "Boarding House Rules:" No one gets seconds until everyone has had firsts. IE; shoot everyone once, then go back and see who needs seconds.....then thirds, if necessary.

    If a single assailant, I think it's ill-advised to shoot twice, then STOP shooting, lowering your gun (as Chuck Taylor advocates) to assess your handiwork. Then, after you go "Oh, SH#T!" you raise your gun up and try for the head shot. That works only if you have the time and a compliant badguy.

    If there is one assailant that's fairly close, a better way is the "zipper technique" where you start shooting as soon as your gun is on target.........anywhere on target, such as his knee, groin, chest, neck and forehead. All shot during the draw as you ride the recoil up his body.

    Another similar view is, as long as the badguy is filling my sight picture, he's taking rounds until he no longer presents a threat.

    Excessive force? As long as I'm defending my life, any force I use is justified in my book.

    Now, if I shoot the badguy and he falls at the first shot, dropping his gun and gasping for breath like a guppy out of water and I go up to him and administer a coup de grace, THAT is excessive force !

    Short of that, I'm shooting until the threat is over, be that one shot or 18.

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  8. Shoot to stop the assault, not to kill. If the person dies it is their own fault. Only a judge can kill.

  9. Yes, I recognize the proper term is to "shoot to stop."

    I frequently phrase the question this way: "Could you shoot someone with the expectation of killing them?"

    But let's be realistic for a moment. Shooting people can kill them. If you don't expect to kill them, don't shoot them.

    That said, there's a big difference between killing and stopping. Of the two, I favor stopping. If he dies as a consequence of being shot, so be it. I am fully willing to risk that consequence on his behalf !

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  10. #19
    echo_5 Guest

    "Mozambique for defense"

    Those of us who were professionally (military, police, govt., etc.) trained at handgun fighting can and should refer to their training if in a self defense shooting. Under duress, we revert to our training. Most, if not all professional training is documented. If your manner of defense is called into question, refer the investigating party to your instructor. It's in their hands now. This has been happening to the police for years when accused of excessive force.

    - my $.02

  11. #20
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    Mozambique Drill

    Quote Originally Posted by echo_5 View Post
    Those of us who were professionally (military, police, govt., etc.) trained at handgun fighting can and should refer to their training if in a self defense shooting. Under duress, we revert to our training. Most, if not all professional training is documented. If your manner of defense is called into question, refer the investigating party to your instructor. It's in their hands now. This has been happening to the police for years when accused of excessive force.

    - my $.02
    I realize that this is the way I was trained and that muscle memory can and will take over in a fight or flight scenario. The point I was trying to make was that we only want the threat to stop. Nothing more nothing less. If all it takes is 1 then that's all you do. If it takes two, then so be it and so on until the threat stops. When you are trained by law enforcement or the military, it puts you in someways in a worse case scenario automatically. Many judges and jurors who have not served will automatically assume that you are a trained killer and a product of your environment that has been turned loose on the general public. I call this the Rambo Effect. He did not ask for trouble but it found him. I make every concession not to come into harms way. I will avoid a fight at almost any cost. I would rather be considered a gutless wuss than be on trial for kicking the dogsnot out of some fool with no manners or home training. Same goes for gunfighting. I do not want to be "that guy". I do not want to ever start a thread with "I drew my gun to defend myself last night". If my gun clears the holster, it is all over but the crying and I know that. I am reluctant but will do my best to maintain my family's safety, above all else. I would rather see and avoid the threat all together. If that can't be done, I will do what is needed nothing more. The last thing I want is to put the military training I was given to the test. You don't get to choose the judge or jury when you are on trial for a felony involving the death of another human being. That being said, almost anything you do if you have been trained by the military is considered "special" training and skills related to your military service. The Mozambique drill is a perfect example of that. It would take a pretty special jury to recognize that self defense is whatever it takes in this day of Mcdonald's Coffee lawsuits and even if you beat the felony manslaughter rap, depending on the state, you may have to deal with a wrongful death lawsuit from the BG's P.O.S. family because he is just a victim of whatever addiction and trying to get a fix. This is all perfectly legal in some states and juries have awarded major cash to these useless golddiggers.
    Let's stay safe and keep heads up and eyeballs out. If I need it I have it. If it comes down to it I'll use it. I can almost guarantee muscle memory will take over and from there it will be on like donkey kong with the legal system.
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

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