Instructor Arrested and Charged - Page 2
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Thread: Instructor Arrested and Charged

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Vermont
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    2,837
    Boy! I sure am glad that I live in Vermont!

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  3. #12
    As the article stated, New Mexico had a similar situation. I was caught up in that. NM requires a 15 hour course. The instructor told the students he was "cutting out the fat" and just teaching "what we needed to know". Now before you say we should have known better, that was discussed with the DPS at the retake, and this instructor was approved by the DPS to teach. We trusted that what and how he was teaching was state approved. He got to the point that you didn't even have to shoot and everyone got 100s.
    The ironic thing is that I learned much more in this instructor's class than I did in the retake given by the DPS.

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lacey, WA
    Posts
    344
    Just move to WA, pay your $52 and call it a day. No class required. Or OR where you can do a free class on line in 20 minutes.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    Yes they should have their certs revoked. He should never be allowed to instruct again. He knows better, the students know better and we all know better. Makes the rest of us look like asses to the media. Shame shame shame.
    If I were one of them and they tried getting my permit, I'd just say "it's just a card with some words and a picture. I had the right to bear arms before I ever took this class. You can revoke my card but my rights don't change. So in conclusion, kiss my ass!"

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    We all ready have the LAW, known as the second amendment, which says 8 hours is 8 hours of infringement too many. The rules HAVE to change because it never was supposed to be a privilege.
    And that's really what it has become. A privilege. Try getting a permit in a place like CA or NYC.
    Knarren und Zigarren!!!

  7. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    3,832
    A few points:
    - He should be prosecuted since he defrauded the governmental system
    - The system is broken since it infringes upon the people's right to keep and bear arms
    - Since it was a training program, he defrauded the students and should be prosecuted

    From my own vantage point, I remember needing to take a course of "instruction" in order to get my non-resident UT permit. Everyone in the class knew it was bull-scheisse, but we went through it since that was the requirement. I find it hard to believe that no person out of almost 1800 who paid for instruction and didn't get it, wouldn't have complained about it to authorities. He got caught because someone ran to the police station directly after his class and the clerk noticed the time discrepancy. Crangle is either very unlucky, had a target on his back, or that clerk is one of the best ever.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    I hear you. But. It is the LAW. Your military service is commendable, but even with prior service you still have to apply for your CCW. I think the difference is that the students were told to lie and they did. If we do not do this process by the books ( rambling and all...lol) the rules will change and no one will have this privilege.
    Seriously???? Did you just post that keeping and bearing a firearm is a PRIVILEGE. You post elsewhere that you are instructor. Do you instruct your students that this is a privilege for them? How dare you spew your filth in this country. We are guaranteed by our Creator that we have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms and that right above all the other rights shall not be infringed, and you come in here and say it is a privilege???

    Maybe all that "training" to become an instructor has skewed your mind as to what is true or not. The fact remains, permits are an infringement. Requirements to get permits are an infringement upon the infringement.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    3,832
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Just move to WA, pay your $52 and call it a day. No class required. Or OR where you can do a free class on line in 20 minutes.
    Or Vermont where they do not issue permits since the officials there read the 2nd Amendment.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,097
    That is the problem with forcing people to take a class for a ccw in the first place. Are they any more prepared than a person that open carries a firearm. Maybe the solution would be a question like...do you know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of and do you know what causes that. In Virginia a 19 dollar internet class and 20 question test that takes 15 minutes to accomplish was all that was needed. Does that make me a bigger risk than someone taking a 10 hour class...no it makes me smarter for living in Virginia where we are treated as if we are adults not children getting behind the steering wheel for the first time. I grew up with guns and Virginia treats us like we have firearm experience. What's next...twenty hour class for shotguns?

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    The Lowcountry of South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    I hear you. But. It is the LAW. Your military service is commendable, but even with prior service you still have to apply for your CCW. I think the difference is that the students were told to lie and they did. If we do not do this process by the books ( rambling and all...lol) the rules will change and no one will have this privilege.
    I have to disagree with you. Since the 10th Amendment says that the states have no jurisdiction on anything granted to the federal government (i.e. the 2nd), then how is it that all these state laws regarding gun rights and permits are not unconstitutional? Some states don't allow CC, some require a permit, some permits accept military training and some don't, some require an eye exam. My point is that it is a right not granted by the state, so how can they add stipulations? IMHO there should be NO state gun laws or permits. It is constitutional right, and ANY regulation limiting that right is an infringement. I don't think the founders considered banning felons from owning guns, because they knew how to deal with felons back then...

    In the instance of the training (or lack thereof) I think that simply trusting that anyone legal to buy a gun is going to be safe with it is ridiculous. Not everyone's dad teaches them about safety, and not everyone has had military training. I don't think licenses or permits are important, but I think the training is imperative! I think "Fitch said he’s hoping other instructors will voluntarily offer free classes to Crangle’s graduates" is stupid. How about you make him pay back everyone that he shortchanged so they don't have to pay twice for the training? Crangle needs to have his permits revoked, have his license to instruct revoked. He's a crook, plain and simple. He charged a fee for a service he did not provide.
    Chief

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