Instructor Arrested and Charged
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Thread: Instructor Arrested and Charged

  1. #1

    Instructor Arrested and Charged

    Charges against St. Louis County gun instructor put concealed-carry permits in doubt : News

    Interesting read......Actually asked the students that had a 3 hr. course to claim 8 hrs. The students cannot claim they didn't know.

    Should the state pull all students CCW's until they perform the mandatory 8 hrs?
    Your thoughts?
    BTTBBOB
    President & Chief Instructor
    www.sflagunschool.com

  2.   
  3. Yes they should have their certs revoked. He should never be allowed to instruct again. He knows better, the students know better and we all know better. Makes the rest of us look like asses to the media. Shame shame shame.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    Yes they should have their certs revoked. He should never be allowed to instruct again. He knows better, the students know better and we all know better. Makes the rest of us look like asses to the media. Shame shame shame.
    How many hours should be filled with the instructor rambling on reading from a script? How many hours should be dedicated to students answering question?

    I'm just curious because I was the only person in my class due to cancellations and it may have been a tad shorter than it would have been with 10 people or more. If my class didn't take 8 hours should I have my license revoked even though I in some states my military service would qualify me? Even though I had to qualify every year with my side arm and my various firearms? I'm curious if I should be punished if the state said the class should be "8 hours" and it didn't run quite that long even though every single bit of info that would be covered in a bigger class was covered?


    Most CCW classes don't cover clearing houses, moving under fire, evacuating a wounded soldier under fire, suppressive fire techniques, or any number of things that some of us should have had drilled into our heads in the military... but if state law says my class should be 8 hours and mine didn't last but 6 that my license should be pulled????

    I consider myself lucky that I didn't have to listen to a bunch of stupid obvious question... but that's just me...
    Glock 29sf / XD-40 SubCompact
    Useful links ---> Ammo/Mag finder & Firearm Manuals & Auto Repair Material & Android Pro/Anti Carry & Android CCW

  5. I hear you. But. It is the LAW. Your military service is commendable, but even with prior service you still have to apply for your CCW. I think the difference is that the students were told to lie and they did. If we do not do this process by the books ( rambling and all...lol) the rules will change and no one will have this privilege.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    I hear you. But. It is the LAW. Your military service is commendable, but even with prior service you still have to apply for your CCW. I think the difference is that the students were told to lie and they did. If we do not do this process by the books ( rambling and all...lol) the rules will change and no one will have this privilege.
    Luckily an 8 hour class wasn't an issue that I was asked or required to sign saying I'd attended. I just hate to see people punished for the short comings of another. For instance of a class, instructor takes your money, tells you if you want to get your license you gotta sign or not sign and not get your license... Seems to me that the students were victims in the situation just as much as they were wrong...
    Glock 29sf / XD-40 SubCompact
    Useful links ---> Ammo/Mag finder & Firearm Manuals & Auto Repair Material & Android Pro/Anti Carry & Android CCW

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    I hear you. But. It is the LAW. Your military service is commendable, but even with prior service you still have to apply for your CCW. I think the difference is that the students were told to lie and they did. If we do not do this process by the books ( rambling and all...lol) the rules will change and no one will have this privilege.
    We all ready have the LAW, known as the second amendment, which says 8 hours is 8 hours of infringement too many. The rules HAVE to change because it never was supposed to be a privilege.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. Hmmm. I think we are past arguing the 2nd amendment. The question is that if the students were told that he was creating a shortcut and that they were supposed to lie about it then it is wrong. We all have the right to bear arms.. We do not however have the right to conceal carry without the proper training and credentials. I think that there are a couple of issues here. I am an instructor who had to go through many many hours to get my certifications. I would not jeopardize my license to make a quick buck and put people out on the street with insufficient knowledge about safety and the law. It is however great to be an American. A lot of crap going through the house and senate that scares me, but I do uphold the law. It's just better in my personal situation.

  9. #8
    While I hate to lose any qualified CC instructor, the key word is qualified. I don't believe he should ever be allowed to hold another class and I doubt if he will. Yes, the students knew it was wrong to take advantage of the situation, but they'd just paid $80 for the class. I imagine it was too tempting for some. I don't think any other instructor should give them free classes though, simply because they knew what they did was wrong.
    I took a full 8 hour class and I learned all the basics. But that was about all I learned and my instructor was highly respected. I can't imagine that you could learn much in 3 hours, so I hate to see these students out running around with loaded weapons. Some of them are probably just like me, who didn't know that much about guns before the class. My father was a licensed gun dealer all his adult life, but my interest in guns was best described as indifferent till last December, before Sandy Hook.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiocycler View Post
    I hear you. But. It is the LAW. Your military service is commendable, but even with prior service you still have to apply for your CCW. I think the difference is that the students were told to lie and they did. If we do not do this process by the books ( rambling and all...lol) the rules will change and no one will have this privilege.
    It is a law that infringes on your Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Do you hold all your rights so casually?
    Maybejim

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member CRPA
    Life Member SASS

    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bttbbob View Post
    Charges against St. Louis County gun instructor put concealed-carry permits in doubt : News

    Interesting read......Actually asked the students that had a 3 hr. course to claim 8 hrs. The students cannot claim they didn't know.

    Should the state pull all students CCW's until they perform the mandatory 8 hrs?
    Your thoughts?
    If the students in fact knew that the law required an 8 hour class, and were "qualified" by the instructor at the end of 3 hours, and asked to falsify the records, and then did falsify their records, then I think they are just as guilty as the instructor. Though I personally do not believe that Americans should be required to obtain a permit to CC in the first place, it unfortunately is the law in most States if someone wants to legally CC. With that said, I do believe an investigation should be launched against the instructors previous classes, and at the point that can be proven, any of the 1,770 who recieved less than the required hours and required training should be required to re-take the class in order for their permit to remain valid. However, they have already paid $$$, so it should be free to re-qualify.

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