Use Of Sight Shooting In Close Quarters Gunfights - Page 2
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Thread: Use Of Sight Shooting In Close Quarters Gunfights

  1. I teach point shooting and front sight shooting in advanced coursework. When people take the time to learn the techniques and make the technique work through repetition they can quickly see that within the 21 foot reactionary gap that those techniques are fast, relatively accurate, and they'll likely never get to see the sights anyway. The Teuller drill is the perfect example of why. When I kick out the statistics illustrating that the bulk of shootings are likely to be in low-light or no-light situations it just reinforces the need for point shooting inside the 21 foot reactionary gap.

    I'm also a NRA instructor and we instructors know that the NRA wants us to teach their material by the book when we teach their coursework. They simply don't want the liability of such advanced techniques. Besides, everyone has to have a foundation of the fundamentals before they can get into the advanced coursework.

    Not understanding that too much/too little trigger finger is pulling/pushing the pistol or that one might be inadvertently squeezing with the pinky and ring fingers on the strong hand pulling the muzzle down is a huge downfall. Sight picture being a fundamental also covers the line of sight issue for point shooting and front sight shooting. Most of us as instructors have had to tell shooters not to sag their head, but rather to bring the firearm to their eyes, ie the line of sight aspect.

    Sadly, the statistics are going to be there to illustrate that in CQB environments where a handgun is employed that most will never get to their sights. The article claimed 20% said they had, but I'd bet the farm that's a skewed statistic as many of those LEOs would have wanted to claim they did use the sights to avoid any reprimands. The major thing that's often not mentioned is that LEOs are documented as missing 7 out of 10 shots at just 21 feet per the FBI's stats, but one has to consider all that's going on once a shooting starts. The FBI's latest manual on Violent Encounters is an eye opener for folks who are unfamiliar with LEO statistics of that nature.

    If LEOs are trained religiously to use their sights and miss 7 out of 10 shots at just 21 feet then why are we still training them for failure?

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  3. #12
    Perhaps the reason only 20% connect is that 80% are shot wildly by instinct!

    I am no expert but the gunbattles I have seen on video, lots of lead went down range, yet if either party bothered to use their sights, the other guy would have been killed.

    I train for RAPID first round hits with sights on target rapidly!

    -Doc

  4. The statistics show that sight picture and sight alignment are difficult to apply inside 15 yards on a genuine threat and a near impossibility for most people inside 7 yards. 21 feet (7 yards) can be covered typically in 3 seconds and it's called the reactionary gap for a reason. Most people have enough trouble just identifying a threat in 3 seconds, which is typically done visually, let alone formulating a response and putting it into action. Kick in the increased heart rate, increased breathing, adrenaline dump, potential for tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, perceptual narrowing, the loss of fine motor skills, the likelihood of low light or no light environments, and a threat intent on causing you harm through violence and you have a near impossible technique to incorporate with sight picture/sight alignment using a handgun in a survival situation.

    Here's an important question. Do you (generic use) train on a visual cue, audio cue, or just your own personal timing? There's a huge difference between the three with the visual cue being the most likely of the three. Personal timing simply cannot be gauged in scenarios as it's based on still-shooting going when you're ready and it varies so much from person to person. Audio cues, like shot timers, mean you're already on the alert and that cannot be avoided. A visual cue can be adapted to lower your readiness, though you'd still be cued up. Throw in a threat that's shooting at you then the personal timing and audio cues go out the window completely.

    Heck, even the FBI's own statistics illustrated that bad guys in their studies had practiced point shooting and front sight shooting because they knew they would never be able to get to their sights fast enough because of the close-in environment they would likely be engaged in. If the bad guys are training on it, why aren't we doing the same?

    That's in part why I've developed a competition around those concepts to illustrate that the statistics are dead-on. Everything forces you to react as if it were real world: perceive that a potential threat is present, identify it as a threat, formulate a response, initiate that response plan. Force on force training exists to illustrate that in the real world bad guys don't stand still, they often shoot back, and your fine motor skills disappear quite rapidly.

    Fact is it's just another tool for survival. If you can't get to the sights or simply cannot see them then you have another option, but it certainly requires training. Knowing both aspects are equally important as one is more applicable at a distance, however self-defense justifications change dramatically as distance increases. (also dependent on what State you live in)

  5. It's another one of the ironies of history that the most trusted pistols in history, the 1911A1 45 ACP was the reason that point shooting was no longer taught. The error was the position of the slide stop pin on the slide, which made having the finger along the slide a questionable practice.

    This is why the US Military stopped teaching the practice of point shooting.

    The great mystery is why they never retooled to modify the error.

    Incidently, the US Military has now returned to point shooting AKA reflexive shooting for their rifles as that technique is far more effective in the new world of combat conditions.

  6. Practic is what counts drawing and pulling the trigger. I look at the target not the gun. I go to the range and shoot twice a week, I go with my friends, we shoot pretty good i don't miss much we start at 7 yards and draw and shoot not aimed fire. then go to 3feet and push and draw and shoot. not aimed and then we shoot aimed shot at 10 and 20 yards. I also use a shotgun and shoot it a box or two. (870) my friend has a m-1a (M-14) he is good with it 600 yards shooting and that the end of the range at that distance.
    I have a new holster I am trying out do not know it's name just a black holster slide on I use it at the range we can not carry yet here in wisconsin yet still waiting till nov 1 to put a ccw app in.
    I am getting a kimber 45 tac. I like them very much also i am going to get the kel-tec shotgun. I love it and am hoping to get it soon after they start selling them. I want to put sight and fore grip on it then a choke on it to add a few more inchs on the barrol. I want to customize it too. I have a brother who can
    plate parts so maybe crome some stuff on it. Yea it going be my toy I love shot guns. it's so small. less than 22 inchs long, it still has a 18 1/2 inch barrol so its legal. two tubes to load 14 shots and one in the pipe 15 blasts 12 gage. HMMMM a crome choke on it might be poss. look real cool lazer sight on a fore grip and a mini light on the other side. one tube oo and the other slugs. just needs a tube in the back for jellybeans to chew while ya shoot zombies. Oh I think I am in love. KSG !!!

  7. it was called the quick kill in the marines.

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