Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought - Page 12
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Thread: Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    85
    Blog Entries
    2
    Absolutely call issuer for immediate review. Being recklace enough off looking down a barrel. Then the weapon pointing at others. This person shouldn't be allowed to carry for safety of himself and others. What a idiot.
    After the 2nd warning that should have been it. Good job you protected him,yourself ,your instructors,and your class

  2.   
  3. I agree with most of the others, you waited too long. On the second muzzle violation there would be a sitdown talk. If he was't apoligetic, he'd be gone. Any argument, he'd be gone.

    larry

  4. #113
    You absolutely handled it properly.
    In fact I would have booted him sooner than you did. There is simply no excuse for his poor attitude & lack of safety.

  5. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by HootmonSccy View Post
    I'm with Felix.. He was given too many chances..

    I would have had him lay his weapon on the table after the 1st offense. Walked him away from the firing line and discussed what he did, why it was wrong, and IF he did it again he would be removed from the firing line immediately and would not be returning. (Yes he would have argued), but would known what the consequences were.. On the second offense, Off the line he would have went...

    I think this approach is even generous.. once is enough, but it is a class environment and people do make mistakes (Even stupid mistakes).

    Good on you returning his money, although I don't think you will be getting any referrals from him.. (He didn't deserve it back, but sometimes it's just better to give the $$ back)

    Even better that you took his NRA certificate back!!!
    I agree with HootmonSccy.

  6. #115
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    8
    The expectation I set is "This ain't baseball - 2nd strike & you're out - no refunds."

  7. #116
    At the S2 Institute we deal with safety issues in the following manner:

    For minor safety issues, (like having your finger on the trigger in the ready gun position, weapon pointed down range)we give the student one-on-one attention to correct the deficiency.

    We also have three main gross safety issues that we unfortunately we have to deal with by automatic ejection from the range:

    1. Loading the gun without being given the command to do so.
    Guns only get loaded on the firing line under the direct command of the Range Master

    2. Pointing a weapon at another person OR your own body parts, intentionally, unintentionally, loaded or unloaded.
    The only safe directions to point a gun are at the target or at the ground.

    3. Drawing a firearm from the holster when the line has been declared safe.
    The only times guns are drawn out are on the command to load, to come to the ready gun position or when the "FIRE" command is given.

    If a student violates any of these mandates they are ejected on a first offense. Vicarious liability being what it is, we do all we can to provide a safe environment for our students to train in. It would not be wise to allow that environment to be compromised by students who tend to "drift off" and act without thinking.

  8. #117
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    6
    Blog Entries
    2
    I don't have as many years training as you and most of the instructors here. I had a similar situation a few weeks back. I actually had him pull his mag and show me he could clear the firearm, then I took it and walked off the line with it. He begrudgingly followed me to see what I was doing with it. When we were safely off the line, I asked him for his case. Not actually knowing what I was doing, he complied. I informed him he was being unsafe to everyone on the line and this was not tolerated and he had to leave. I told him to meet me back at the class room, about 200 yards away and we would talk further. I kept his gun until I met up with him at the classroom. I told him he would need to leave the shooting park and I would be filing a caution with the shooting range master.
    Money aside, there are several issues here. First, the liability, but more so the danger he put everyone into, the instructors, the students and himself. These actions cannot be tolerated and give our community a black eye.

  9. #118
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Phoenix Arizona
    Posts
    67
    I know this post wqas started last year, however I just wanted to throw MY 2cents in....
    If you had NOT ejected him from the class, there is a high probability that someone would have gotten injured if not killed. Had that happened how would you have felt? More than likely, you would have been extreamly remorseful about it and wished you had done something sooner to prevent such an incident. That my friend is why you did the right thing (tho as with most, I would have ejected his ignorant a$$ much sooner, and kept his money) by removing him from the class. I can't speak for LEO firearms classes, but I CAN tell you that when I went through Basic Training, if I had done that on the line or ANYWHERE in class with a firearm, the instructor would have literally knocked me senseless! Bravo Brother, you saved an idiot from himself!

  10. Only thing you lacked in your approach was a swift kick to the nuts. The offender was a serious threat to everyone on location.

  11. #120
    The student got off extremely light in this case, but eventually reached the point where his behavior would not be tolerated any further. As I was reading the post I feared reading about someone shot and or killed. Safety is of paramount importance on the firing range. There is no compromise, no negotiation, no second chances. The odds of someone being hurt or killed only increase as the amount of time on the range is allowed for someone who will not obey the rules of gun safety. As one of the IDPA Safety Officers on the range where I shoot, only one warning is given for a safety violation whether it be for the most minor as pointing the muzzle in what we consider an unsafe direction, or a major infraction.

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