Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought - Page 13
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Thread: Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought

  1. I have been to a several IDPA events and the range rules are not a preference. If you accidentally get caught up in the moment and do something unsafe you will be corrected in an effort to train. If you are blatantly unsafe on top of being an idiot you would be immediately escorted off the property. In your situation it would be great if you could follow up with a report to law enforcement or the governing body in your state pertaining to handgun licensing to report having to be removed from an event for repeated safety violations.

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  3. #122
    I'm really surprised it took quite a number of serious safety breaches before you escorted him off the course. In Australia the first breach of him looking down the barrel would have been enough to ask him to leave. Here you need to pass your safety training before you can apply for a licence to obtain a pistol.

    I would think you'd open yourself up to a negligence claim, something your insurance wouldn't cover, if he would have shot himself or someone else after the first safety breach. It sounds pretty clear he is mentally defective.

  4. #123
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Missouri
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    I'm sure that you lay the ground work as to what a student will be expelled from the class for before it even starts. Every class I have taken starts with the instructor telling you to follow instructions, keep weapon pointed down range, load when told ect ect. I attended a class as an observer when my wife took her CCW class. they were told breaking any of those rules would result in being kicked out. This instructor explained that he has only had to do this a couple of times. He made believers out of her class and they had no problems. That guy you are talking about wouldn't have made it past the first violation.

  5. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Wisconsin/Milwaukee
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    As a fellow NRA PPOTH Instructor I understand your difficulty.

    In our classes, the first time he looked down the barrel (in a non-event) he would have received his warning. The second time he looked down the barrel or committed any other major safety violation he would have been counseled out of the class, with the availability to return another time AFTER demonstrating his ability to handle a firearm safely.

    His prior instructors are partially to blame for this too. This type of unsafe action on the range doesn't just happen overnight. It is likely this individual exhibited his problems in Basic Pistol and PPITH.

    Also, your response to the individual was correct in disarming him. He has to realize that it is not only his safety we are concerned about. It is the safety of every other student and instructor in that class! I think he needs some one-on-one shooting lessons with a qualified shooting instructor.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by bkunick View Post
    As a fellow NRA PPOTH Instructor I understand your difficulty.

    In our classes, the first time he looked down the barrel (in a non-event) he would have received his warning. The second time he looked down the barrel or committed any other major safety violation he would have been counseled out of the class, with the availability to return another time AFTER demonstrating his ability to handle a firearm safely.

    His prior instructors are partially to blame for this too. This type of unsafe action on the range doesn't just happen overnight. It is likely this individual exhibited his problems in Basic Pistol and PPITH.

    Also, your response to the individual was correct in disarming him. He has to realize that it is not only his safety we are concerned about. It is the safety of every other student and instructor in that class! I think he needs some one-on-one shooting lessons with a qualified shooting instructor.
    In Australia the first would not even be a warning. He would be expelled and told never to come back. Not sure how you define minor and major safety violations. Accidental discharge while pointed down range while changing mags would be considered minor in Australia and we would allow a couple of those in their lifetime as a member of a shooting club. Sweeping your own body part would be considered minor or major depending on the situation. In Australia you have to be a member of a pistol club to maintain a pistol licence, so if the club rejects you, there goes your licence and the right to even own a pistol.

    A major violation would be pointing a gun at oneself or anyone else (loaded or unloaded), unless in a classroom, repair or safe area situation where the firearms have been verified as clear. No handling of ammunition in safe areas or classrooms either.

    Some people just should not handle firearms in my opinion... especially in public. I don't want some cowboy with a gun trying to protect me on the streets if someone were threatening me. I'd rather take care of it myself.

  7. #126
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    BC1, all the range courses I know of use a 2 strike policy.

    Strike one, you get a stern and embarrassing warning.

    Strike two, and you are history.

  8. Holy smoke! I've been teaching for more than 35 years and thought I'd seen it all. You beat me by a millennia! I think you may have let it continue a little to long but you were there not me so I'm not going to second guess you. No matter, the end result was correct.

  9. #128
    In any of our classes, the first violation constituted gross negligence and would have resulted in immediate ejection from the premises. How bad would it have been if he had capped another student after a warning? You would have been responsible for allowing him to stay there after he demonstrated his lack of regard for human safety.

    But, aside from personal opinion and differing SOP, you did fine.

  10. #129
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Not being witness to what you were and only having your side of the episode to go by, I would have to commend you for not pistol whipping this idiot with his own pistol. We personally were not allowed to even begin live fire unless we could recite verbatim the four rules to safe gun handling. We then had to explain why each of these rules was important. From what you say this moron did, you had to protect your other students, your lives, your good names, and the name of the club.

    I'm glad you did what you did, but I certainly would not have ever allowed him the chance to look down a barrel twice in the same lesson. That's just me.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  11. #130
    If he handles weapons so carelessly, he stands a good chance of being in the news some day. I agree he should be reported and not be a ccw. It will just make us all look bad when the day comes he shoots someone due to his careless firearms handling habit. I've seen this sort of thing when at our outdoor range where I shoot and there's no range safety officer around. I just pack up and leave when I see someone handling their firearms carelessly. It doesn't happen too often, but it HAS happened to me. You don't get a 2nd chance at it, if the bullet goes out the barrel when you don't want it to.
    "Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" - Elmer Fudd
    NRA Life member
    GOA Life Member

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