Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought - Page 15
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Thread: Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought

  1. #141
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    central illinois
    Posts
    16
    Did you do the right thing, you bet. Kudos! There would of been flags for me in the class room. we all encourage questions and experiances. But once someone is expert on everything flag. remember we have a responsibilty to all the students. I would of and have pulled a student quietly and profesionally explain this to him/her. Funny how in a time of a vast amount of combat experiance the vet's arent the problem. As for the range, everyone is given a range brief. This was not a "beginners" class. I would off called cease fire walked over and stood behind him and askex the class the three rules of gun safety. Then I wojld of asked why he/she did what they did and explained why they shouldnt. This is not meant to "weed" anyone out but to use examples for all to learn (yes a little embarrassment neved hurt). The next safety violation the person would of been corrected anx ejected! I am a hard butt when it comes to the range, way to much at stake and I have responsibility to ALL! Now, with the tyoe you had tricky. I would of called range cold and everyone case pistols, and explained we are going back to classroom for further instruction. This is where I would of ejected him quickly, quietly, and safely. I learned this when I taught martial arts at young age and holds true, "I am the instructor, this is my class and curriculum, it might be different but this is what I instruct"! We have to be professional and open to experiance, but we are still the guardian's of standards and safety. Again you did great job glad all was safe and learned.

  2.   
  3. #142
    Had a guy like that in basic training. While on the range he swept the line several times. He was repeatedly warned on the range and when we were clearing our weapons off range he fired one off over the DI'S head. from that day forward he was referered to as Boom Boom. He also never completed basic. This person was untrainable and was discharged from the Army. You were right to remove this person from the range. I would also have reported his actions to the issuing authority about his actions to maby saving some bystander in the future. Your guy may be one like I just described.
    jwees

  4. #143
    You know instinctively after you crank a car engine a few times, if it is going to start or not. You do not have to crank it until the battery will no longer support the dome light in the interior, to know it will not start and run.

    The failure of the staff to not weed out the problem, in the beginning stages of the first day of instruction, and allowing the incompetent student onto a gun range, with a loaded firearm, to be blunt, shows your program needs reprogramming, to stress safety for all your students, and your staff.

  5. #144
    too bad you can't just cave his face in, like needs to be done, obviously.

  6. Guy's an idiot.

    I always have my students repeat a statement over and over throughout our classroom work until it becomes a mantra: "All guns are loaded. All safeties are broken." Hopefully whenever they see a gun, they will assume "it's loaded and the safety is broken" before they pick it up.

  7. #146
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    3,832
    Quote Originally Posted by lzflashback View Post
    Guy's an idiot.

    I always have my students repeat a statement over and over throughout our classroom work until it becomes a mantra: "All guns are loaded. All safeties are broken." Hopefully whenever they see a gun, they will assume "it's loaded and the safety is broken" before they pick it up.



    Yikes if carrying a gun and that happened, it would be firing fully automatic all on its own. !!!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  8. I believe you did everything correct. As a new instructor, this would be my worst nightmare and your story reconfirms my course of actions should I ever have a "PITA" student.

    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    This weekend I held the class "NRA Personal Protection Outside The Home." Saturday was eight hours of lecture, bookwork, demonstration and dry-fire exercises. I had one student who felt the need to interject his opinion on everything that was said. He was bogging us down and we couldn't keep him quiet. I was the lead instructor and had two other NRA instructors and a SWAT weapons instructor working the class as we like a one-to-one instructor/student ratio during the live fire parts of the class.

    Well today (Sunday) was the advanced live-fire exercises. Sixteen students overall and four at a time on the line (with four instructors). Then this particular student came on the line. Look out! He had much difficulty following instructions. First, we found him looking down the barrel of his loaded .45. He was warned and advised of the safety violations. A few minutes later another instructor caught him looking down the barrel. He was warned again and argued that he was not compromising safety on the firing line. Then the police trainer caught him loading the gun while pointing it directly at him. Lastly, I caught him with the loaded gun turned toward himself wiping some smudges off it. He then looked down the barrel again.

    The police instructor requested he hand over the gun and step off the line. He refused. The LEO warned him to turn over the gun or he would forceably take it and arrest him. He begrudgingly gave it up. I locked the gun in the clubhouse and returned to the range to find him arguing that he wasn't doing anything wrong. Tried to tell me all the other instructors were wrong. These are well trained instructors with intuitive knowledge and extensive experience in personal protection. I believe they acted in the best interest of the club, the other students and our own personal safety (even though we all wear vests during live-fire). I refunded his money and repossessed his NRA certificate of completion. When the class ended he was escorted to the main gate, his gun was returned and the gate was locked behind him (he's not a member of this club).

    In the event he shot himself or another student you can bet we would have been named in any lawsuit. Although we carry $6,000,000 liability insurance between us I believed that allowing him to continue presented significant liability to all involved. Ignorance at it's best. yet he's had a CCW permit for 25 years.I thought the LEO was going to choke him as he wouldn't shut up until threatened with police intervention.

    The best part was that we had another instructor teaching "NRA Basic Pistol" in the clubhouse and this occurred while he was covering handgun safety. Those students got a good look at stupidity in action.

    What do you think? Please provide your opinions? Did we handle him correctly.

    In all the years of teaching this was my first experience with such a serious issue.

  9. #148
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    188
    If you felt you had to remove a student then Im sure you had a good reason. Typically if we get a student who has "troubles" and we have to fail, we offer a free seat in our next class. I understand how it feels to have to fail a student for various reasons. However, we do it in love and the safety for the everyone around them, no matter how much they object. Keep up the good work and dont let a "trouble" student keep you down. - Aaron M
    Ohio Concealed Carry Institute (click Link)
    N.R.A. Pistol Instructors & Range Safety Officers
    Like Us on Facebook (click Link)

  10. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch1911 View Post
    I believe all was done in the best interest of his well being and those that participated. I'll play devils advocate a little bit... I don't believe the LEO had any rights to effect an arrest regarding the handing over of the weapon. He wasn't breaking any laws, but rather is one of those individuals that clearly has no clue pertaining to gun safety.
    Dutch1911
    1/*
    Not sure what the laws in your state are, but there must be something such as brandishing, reckless behavior, GATTOP, self endangerment, endangerment of others.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  11. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    This weekend I held the class "NRA Personal Protection Outside The Home." Saturday was eight hours of lecture, bookwork, demonstration and dry-fire exercises. I had one student who felt the need to interject his opinion on everything that was said. He was bogging us down and we couldn't keep him quiet. I was the lead instructor and had two other NRA instructors and a SWAT weapons instructor working the class as we like a one-to-one instructor/student ratio during the live fire parts of the class.

    Well today (Sunday) was the advanced live-fire exercises. Sixteen students overall and four at a time on the line (with four instructors). Then this particular student came on the line. Look out! He had much difficulty following instructions. First, we found him looking down the barrel of his loaded .45. He was warned and advised of the safety violations. A few minutes later another instructor caught him looking down the barrel. He was warned again and argued that he was not compromising safety on the firing line. Then the police trainer caught him loading the gun while pointing it directly at him. Lastly, I caught him with the loaded gun turned toward himself wiping some smudges off it. He then looked down the barrel again.

    The police instructor requested he hand over the gun and step off the line. He refused. The LEO warned him to turn over the gun or he would forceably take it and arrest him. He begrudgingly gave it up. I locked the gun in the clubhouse and returned to the range to find him arguing that he wasn't doing anything wrong. Tried to tell me all the other instructors were wrong. These are well trained instructors with intuitive knowledge and extensive experience in personal protection. I believe they acted in the best interest of the club, the other students and our own personal safety (even though we all wear vests during live-fire). I refunded his money and repossessed his NRA certificate of completion. When the class ended he was escorted to the main gate, his gun was returned and the gate was locked behind him (he's not a member of this club).

    In the event he shot himself or another student you can bet we would have been named in any lawsuit. Although we carry $6,000,000 liability insurance between us I believed that allowing him to continue presented significant liability to all involved. Ignorance at it's best. yet he's had a CCW permit for 25 years.I thought the LEO was going to choke him as he wouldn't shut up until threatened with police intervention.

    The best part was that we had another instructor teaching "NRA Basic Pistol" in the clubhouse and this occurred while he was covering handgun safety. Those students got a good look at stupidity in action.

    What do you think? Please provide your opinions? Did we handle him correctly.

    In all the years of teaching this was my first experience with such a serious issue.
    I think I would not have refunded him squat.
    No statement should be believed because it is made by an authority.
    Robert A. Heinlein

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