Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought - Page 2
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Thread: Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought

  1. #11
    handgonnetoter Guest
    When I took the Utah Non-Resident CCW class, we had some weiner like that. This guy was starting to tick off even the women in the class! He finally started to calm down a bit after the two instructors we had told him numerous time that nobody cared about what his buddies do or how he does things. The scary thing is that this guy probably got his permit too!

  2.   
  3. #12

    CCW licenses - annotations?

    Quote Originally Posted by XJ_MAC View Post
    I think he should be reported to his issuing authority for review.
    I agree.

    Even though some will argue with me, I really don't want the idiots of this world to have weapons ...

  4. #13
    Not only should you have tossed him after the first warning, this person should not only not be allowed to have a CCW permit, he should not be allowed to even own a gun, handgun, rifle, or shotgun, and I'm not so sure about a pellet gun or a paintball gun

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punch View Post
    Other than not removing him after the first offense, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. I, too, have been trained by LEO's and Military instructors. I cannot imagine any of my instructors allowing me to continue with live fire after exhibiting that kind of behavior. In fact, I probably would not have been allowed to come back for the second day. I admire your patience, but I believe that you took on too much liability by allowing him so many chances. However, that being said, you were the one teaching the class and not me, so it is your decision based on your experience at the time that counts and not my opinion.
    No, your opinion is extremely important to me. Thanks.

    Thanks everyone. I agree, he should have been tossed sooner. Our police trainer was about to give him a "boot colonoscopy." We met today to discuss the situation on Sunday and how we might handle it in the future. The other instructors thought there was something "missing" in this guy.

    I got an email from one of the students today that said...

    "Bob In response to your post in usa carry forum, I was a student in your class that day and these are my thoughts. I think you and your staff showed remarkable patience and restraint in dealing with this person. It was like having Curly of the Three Stooges to deal with. On Sat. he was annoying, but on Sun. he was a life-threating situation. Perhaps this gentleman might benefit from a more basic course such as "Eddie Eagle", although I would not wish this guy on another NRA instructor. I thoroughly enjoyed your classes and cannot place a dollar value on the instruction I received. I will highly recommend your class to anyone considering carrying a fire arm for self-defense. You and your staff are truely professionals of the highest order."

    I'm humbled by this student's comments. Thanks to all of you for your advice. Next time we'll move faster to expell.

    Stay safe out there,
    BC
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #15
    Join Date
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    All that needed saying in your Post BC1 "He had much difficulty following instructions." You're the R.O., they don't comply with instructions, they are off the range. Maximum discipline, NO exception. You did the right thing.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    When I took the Utah Non-Resident CCW class, we had some weiner like that. This guy was starting to tick off even the women in the class! He finally started to calm down a bit after the two instructors we had told him numerous time that nobody cared about what his buddies do or how he does things. The scary thing is that this guy probably got his permit too!

    I had a guy like that in one of my UT CFP classes. Not so much upsetting the ladies, more like interrupting every time I was talking about one of the "legal aspects" of UT law. Every student had a copy of the lesson plan that I was teaching from (as required by UT BCI), so it's no surprise what I'm gonna talk about next. This guy would comment about how "wrong" the law was and how it should be changed. After the first hour or so of the class, I was finally fed up with him and had a one on one with him during a break. The guy told me he was an attorney and "knew" the law, so the class was a waste of his time. Not wanting to waste his time (my time or the time of the other students), I promptly invited him to leave and offered him a full refund. At that point he got really upset and called me a few vulgarities, tossed his class materials, and took off. Never heard from the guy again.

    Having had asked the question regarding "questionable" people taking my class, I was advised by the folks at UT BCI to let them know about anyone I had concerns about. I had no problem forwarding this clown's info to UT BCI. Not sure if he got his CFP, but the clown attempted to sign up for another class a few months later using bogus personal info, BUT THE SAME EMAIL ADDRESS!

    If you are an instructor, and you have someone who's really "missing some screws", I feel that it's your duty to report the person to the proper authorities. It's not an action to be taken lightly, however an important one in keeping firearms out of the hands of nut cases. Lately I've heard a lot of media coverage about "lawful firearms owners" that committed crimes. I'd like to do my part to curb that trend.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  8. When the class ended he was escorted to the main gate, his gun was returned and the gate was locked behind him (he's not a member of this club).


    I feel the gun should have been retained by the LEO, and student referred to some sort of counselling..sorry next time might not be so lucky..if he does end up causing a shooting accident in the future and somehow it is learned of his problem in your class, I'm sure a lawyer somehow will say you may have prevented it.

  9. I believe all was done in the best interest of his well being and those that participated. I'll play devils advocate a little bit... I don't believe the LEO had any rights to effect an arrest regarding the handing over of the weapon. He wasn't breaking any laws, but rather is one of those individuals that clearly has no clue pertaining to gun safety.
    Dutch1911
    1/*

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch1911 View Post
    I believe all was done in the best interest of his well being and those that participated. I'll play devils advocate a little bit... I don't believe the LEO had any rights to effect an arrest regarding the handing over of the weapon. He wasn't breaking any laws, but rather is one of those individuals that clearly has no clue pertaining to gun safety.
    Dutch1911
    1/*
    Agree. The laws of each state obviously vary, but our state laws specify when a police officer can disarm a citizen. Doing so outside of these parameters is a felony offense on the part of the officer. That is how seriously the RTKBA is in Nebraska. Temporarily removing the firearm from the person as was done and returning it when he was off the property is well within those guidelines. Confiscating the weapon may not be, particularly if the person already has a CHP and is attending a "refesher" or attending with someone else, such as a spouse. The laws regarding the disarming of a CHP holder by law enforcement are VERY specific, including what has to be included on the reciept for the weapon that must be given the CHP holder if his weapon is confiscated.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch1911 View Post
    I believe all was done in the best interest of his well being and those that participated. I'll play devils advocate a little bit... I don't believe the LEO had any rights to effect an arrest regarding the handing over of the weapon. He wasn't breaking any laws, but rather is one of those individuals that clearly has no clue pertaining to gun safety.
    Dutch1911
    1/*
    Hi Dutch. Under NYS Penal Law he could have been arrested. He got off easy.

    S 120.20 Reckless endangerment in the second degree.
    A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the second degree when he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person.

    Reckless endangerment in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

    S 120.25 Reckless endangerment in the first degree.
    A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the first degree when, under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person.

    Reckless endangerment in the first degree is a class D felony.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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