How Do I get the state of FL to understand?
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Thread: How Do I get the state of FL to understand?

  1. How Do I get the state of FL to understand?

    This is my conversation with the "Florida Department Of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Licensing Division" trying to find out how I can use my curriculum as a basis to certifiy instructors like the NRA or FDLE would for conceal firearms permit courses.

    First Message To The State Of Florida:

    "I would like some information about how to certifiy my orginaztion "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" to be able to certify instructors so they can teach courses for concealed firearms classes. Basically I want to be my own entity like the NRA or FDLE and be able to certify instructors like they can. Any information would help.



    First Response I Got Back From Dep. Of Ag.

    We do not license or regulate CW instructors or schools (organizations) they may wish to establish to give these classes.

    May I suggest you contact a gun show or pawn shop to see if there is any information they may have?

    Signed,
    Not Posting

    Second Letter To The First Repsonse From The FL Dep Of Ag.
    " I think you misunderstood my question and I will admit that is my fault. I was in bit of a rush as I was writing it and reading back over the email I sent I can see it wasn't very clear.

    I have started (or am about to start) "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" I have been an instructor for a long time and have written a complete "Hand Gun Safety and Concealed Carry" curriculum. I want my association to be recognized by your licensing division as an acceptable organization to be able to certify instructors to teach our curriculum and it be acceptable by FL DEP OF AG LIC DIV.

    In the "Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License Application Instructions And Chapter 790, Florida Statutes" (the hand book that is given with the conceal weapons packets) on page 2 Question 6 Item 3 It States:

    "Completion of any firearms or safety course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services."

    I want to know how I can get my association (National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association) and its curriculum to be accepted. In the end I would like it to say " ;utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or The National Firearms Safety and Tactics Association.

    I hope this clarifies the question and would really appreciate any help, advice or direction you can give me. As you can see a gun shop or gun show definitely would not be able to help me with this. Thanks again, I know you guys are really slammed busy over there and thanks for taking the time with me. If it is easier you can call me as well, I will provide the contact information under my signature.

    Sincerely,

    Brian A. Woods


    The Second Response I Got To This E-Mail From The Same Person
    "Yes, The NRA certifies instructors"

    I gave up email, I guess I will have to call? Anyone have ANY suggestions on this at all? Is it me maybe, was my emails not very clear? I am dumbfounded

    Any help would be appreciated.

    -Brian

  2.   
  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by bwoods1978 View Post
    This is my conversation with the "Florida Department Of Agriculture and Consumer Services, Licensing Division" trying to find out how I can use my curriculum as a basis to certifiy instructors like the NRA or FDLE would for conceal firearms permit courses.

    First Message To The State Of Florida:

    "I would like some information about how to certifiy my orginaztion "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" to be able to certify instructors so they can teach courses for concealed firearms classes. Basically I want to be my own entity like the NRA or FDLE and be able to certify instructors like they can. Any information would help.



    First Response I Got Back From Dep. Of Ag.

    We do not license or regulate CW instructors or schools (organizations) they may wish to establish to give these classes.

    May I suggest you contact a gun show or pawn shop to see if there is any information they may have?

    Signed,
    Not Posting

    Second Letter To The First Repsonse From The FL Dep Of Ag.
    " I think you misunderstood my question and I will admit that is my fault. I was in bit of a rush as I was writing it and reading back over the email I sent I can see it wasn't very clear.

    I have started (or am about to start) "The National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association" I have been an instructor for a long time and have written a complete "Hand Gun Safety and Concealed Carry" curriculum. I want my association to be recognized by your licensing division as an acceptable organization to be able to certify instructors to teach our curriculum and it be acceptable by FL DEP OF AG LIC DIV.

    In the "Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License Application Instructions And Chapter 790, Florida Statutes" (the hand book that is given with the conceal weapons packets) on page 2 Question 6 Item 3 It States:

    "Completion of any firearms or safety course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services."

    I want to know how I can get my association (National Firearms Safety & Tactics Association) and its curriculum to be accepted. In the end I would like it to say " ;utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services or The National Firearms Safety and Tactics Association.

    I hope this clarifies the question and would really appreciate any help, advice or direction you can give me. As you can see a gun shop or gun show definitely would not be able to help me with this. Thanks again, I know you guys are really slammed busy over there and thanks for taking the time with me. If it is easier you can call me as well, I will provide the contact information under my signature.

    Sincerely,

    Brian A. Woods


    The Second Response I Got To This E-Mail From The Same Person
    "Yes, The NRA certifies instructors"

    I gave up email, I guess I will have to call? Anyone have ANY suggestions on this at all? Is it me maybe, was my emails not very clear? I am dumbfounded

    Any help would be appreciated.

    -Brian
    First thing I'd do for something this significant is to write a letter, NOT and email. I'd attach the curriculum, and my CV detailing my qualifications to teach this material. I'd address it to the Secretary of the department so that someone with some authority will eventually see it.

    Just my $0.02
    John - KJ4NSE
    Member NRA | GCO | GOA | SAF | ARRL
    Why would God invent something like whiskey? To keep the Irish from ruling the world of course.

  4. #3
    Are you a state certified instructor?

    If so, then you would qualify under Paragraph 7....no?

  5. The organizations qualified to certify instructors are listed in the actual statute. The only way to get added is to get a legislator to propose a bill adding you to the list.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Are you a state certified instructor?

    If so, then you would qualify under Paragraph 7....no?
    Yes, actually NRA certified, but I wanted my organazation to be recognized as a certifiable institution. Which is no small feet I definatley understand but I have the curriculum, videos everything designed by me and the expirience to back it. Just getting them to understandt hat lol

  7. Quote Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
    The organizations qualified to certify instructors are listed in the actual statute. The only way to get added is to get a legislator to propose a bill adding you to the list.
    If that is what I have to do then I will. I appreciate what you are telling me and it makes sense, mainly because DEP OF AG had absolutley no friggin clue as to what I was trying to say and explains where they got their list from.

    -Brian

  8. Quote Originally Posted by johnsteele View Post
    First thing I'd do for something this significant is to write a letter, NOT and email. I'd attach the curriculum, and my CV detailing my qualifications to teach this material. I'd address it to the Secretary of the department so that someone with some authority will eventually see it.

    Just my $0.02
    Thats true that was actually going to be my next move. I just wanted to know if my question made any sense, atleast to firearms instructors, so I didn't think I was completely going out of my mind. The person that wrote me back is just the coordinator for public inquiries. But still, holy sh**. That last email i got left me totally dumb founded.

    -Brian

  9. #8
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    You could also try to get the NRA on board. They might come up with a way to take your organization under their wing so you wouldn't have to get the law changed.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by XJ_MAC View Post
    You could also try to get the NRA on board. They might come up with a way to take your organization under their wing so you wouldn't have to get the law changed.
    If I read his post correctly he wants to use his own curriculum rather than the NRA curriculum to certify trainers. Of course I could be mistaken.

    Here is the snippet of Florida statute that identifies who a licensee must have a certificate from:
    790.06 (2)(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:
    1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;
    2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
    3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
    4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
    5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
    6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or
    7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;
    You can find the full statute here: The Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

  11. #10
    The relevant portion of the statute seems to be this:

    Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a ... firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by ... the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

    So how does one become an "instructor certified by...the Department of Agriculture"?

    The first place to look (if you can't get the Department of Agriculture to tell you) would be the regulations of the Department of Agriculture. You can start that search here: https://www.flrules.org/

    I did a quick search for "firearms instructor" and found several references, one of which was this one:

    11B-20.0013 Commission Instructor Certification Categories.

    Except as otherwise provided in this rule section or by law, individuals who instruct training courses pursuant to Rule Chapter 11B-35, F.A.C., at or through a training school, shall be certified by the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission. The Commission offers the following categories of certification to instructor applicants:

    (1) General Instructor Certification.
    (2) High-Liability Instructor Certifications.
    (a) Vehicle Operations Instructor Certification.
    (b) Firearms Instructor Certification.
    (c) Defensive Tactics Instructor Certification.
    (d) First Aid Instructor Certification.
    (3) Specialized Topics Instructor Certifications.
    (a) Law Topics Instructor Certification.
    (b) Speed Measurement Instructor Certification.
    (c) Canine Team Instructor Certification.
    (d) Breath Test Instructor Certification.

    Rulemaking Authority 943.03(4), 943.12(1), 943.14(3) FS. Law Implemented 943.12(3), (9), 943.14(3) FS. History–New 7-29-01, Amended 11-5-02, 11-30-04, 3-21-07, 6-9-08.

    So it appears that you need to make contact with the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission to find out how to obtain a "Firearms Instructor Certification"

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