Beyond layman's first aid.... - Page 3
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Thread: Beyond layman's first aid....

  1. #21
    ALL states have some form of a Medical Practice Act! Everyone (and I mean everyone) who practices medicine in that state is bound by law to follow this act. It clearly defines WHO, WHEN, WHERE, and HOW medical care can be performed.

    I know of no state (correct me if I am wrong here) where violation is less than a FELONY!

    -Doc

  2.   
  3. As far as stopping the bleeding, keep a few tampons in your range bag in a zip lock freezer bag like I do. This will stop the bleeding.

    And before any comments start, check to see what are troops are using. This exact method!

  4. #23
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb61 View Post
    As far as stopping the bleeding, keep a few tampons in your range bag in a zip lock freezer bag like I do. This will stop the bleeding.

    And before any comments start, check to see what are troops are using. This exact method!
    Depends on the wound, pads might work as well but the basic premise is right tampon is french for bandage
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  5. Geez folks! How did this get out of control? It was a simple concept of learning what you're up against for a GST at the range and that there are things beyond layman's first aid that can be done for issues unique to the GST.

    Using simple things like quick-clot for instance. Understanding that a GST tends to dramatically rupture capillaries in multiple locations and at point blank ranges it can liquify soft tissues. There are instances where a pressure dressing won't get the job done and a tourniquet won't be applicable. Those are the kinds of instances where the victim will and should no longer be allowed to make decisions for themselves.

    Having been in combat I've seen this type of issue first hand and know that something as simple as quick clot can help get the job done where a pressure dressing cannot by itself. But the key is understanding what you're up against.

    That doesn't mean carrying around IV gear and surgical tools. That means training and carrying the right gear for where you'll be and knowing how to get a victim to emergency services for your given location with the latter of the two being absolutely vital.

    If a victim's family decides to sue me for saving a life that means that it would have happened whether I acted or not. Don't act having the training and gear to do something about it and you're just as liable if that person dies. It's called a wrongful death suit.

  6. #25
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    May not have made myself clear in a previous post, spent 25 years as a paramedic, am NO LONGER a paramedic and with exception of basic first aid ABC's no other attempt to work on ANYONE other than my family in this lawsuit filled era will be made.

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteach4U View Post
    Geez folks! How did this get out of control? It was a simple concept of learning what you're up against for a GST at the range and that there are things beyond layman's first aid that can be done for issues unique to the GST.

    Using simple things like quick-clot for instance. Understanding that a GST tends to dramatically rupture capillaries in multiple locations and at point blank ranges it can liquify soft tissues. There are instances where a pressure dressing won't get the job done and a tourniquet won't be applicable. Those are the kinds of instances where the victim will and should no longer be allowed to make decisions for themselves.

    Having been in combat I've seen this type of issue first hand and know that something as simple as quick clot can help get the job done where a pressure dressing cannot by itself. But the key is understanding what you're up against.

    That doesn't mean carrying around IV gear and surgical tools. That means training and carrying the right gear for where you'll be and knowing how to get a victim to emergency services for your given location with the latter of the two being absolutely vital.

    If a victim's family decides to sue me for saving a life that means that it would have happened whether I acted or not. Don't act having the training and gear to do something about it and you're just as liable if that person dies. It's called a wrongful death suit.
    Since when is it any layman's job to assess when basic first-aid is a failure and then proceed to escalate the level of care?

    If you violate your state's laws against unauthorized practice of medicine, you will have time in the slammer as well as the lawsuit!

    If you are not LEGALLY qualified AND authorized, by law, to take your planned action, you are in grave criminal law peril!

    Even among trained professionals, we avoid doing procedures we aren't qualified to do. I have unrestricted licenses to practice medicine and surgery in two states. Just because I can LEGALLY do brain surgery, I won't even consider performing it. Why? Because I haven't been trained in it. This even applies to simple things. I know physicians who are fantastic internists but refuse to pull toenails because they are not trained in it and don't have the experience to do it properly.

    I earned certificates in ACLS, ATLS(Advanced Trauma Life Support), NALS(Neonatal Advanced Life Support), ALSO( Advanced Life Support for Obstetrics). Since I don't work in peds or obstetrics regularly anymore, I would NEVER think of performing those procedures.

    Above all, "First do no harm." It is better to let nature take it's course than to actively KILL your patient trying to pretend you are what you aren't!

    -Doc

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bighouse Doc View Post
    Since when is it any layman's job to assess when basic first-aid is a failure and then proceed to escalate the level of care?

    If you violate your state's laws against unauthorized practice of medicine, you will have time in the slammer as well as the lawsuit!

    If you are not LEGALLY qualified AND authorized, by law, to take your planned action, you are in grave criminal law peril!

    Even among trained professionals, we avoid doing procedures we aren't qualified to do. I have unrestricted licenses to practice medicine and surgery in two states. Just because I can LEGALLY do brain surgery, I won't even consider performing it. Why? Because I haven't been trained in it. This even applies to simple things. I know physicians who are fantastic internists but refuse to pull toenails because they are not trained in it and don't have the experience to do it properly.

    I earned certificates in ACLS, ATLS(Advanced Trauma Life Support), NALS(Neonatal Advanced Life Support), ALSO( Advanced Life Support for Obstetrics). Since I don't work in peds or obstetrics regularly anymore, I would NEVER think of performing those procedures.

    Above all, "First do no harm." It is better to let nature take it's course than to actively KILL your patient trying to pretend you are what you aren't!

    -Doc
    Again, If he wants to help someone how the **** does that affect you in anyway? It does not so remove your stick and stfu. So he may go to jail, and he is willing to risk that it's his choice. If he stands by and does nothing he can just as easily be sued by the family. As has been shown in the many "Sheepdog" threads some people can not and will not leave a person in need. If they want to help a person medically, knowing they could be sued or go to jail then so be it. It does not affect you one little bit.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  9. #28
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&WM&P40 View Post
    Again, If he wants to help someone how the **** does that affect you in anyway? It does not so remove your stick and stfu. So he may go to jail, and he is willing to risk that it's his choice. If he stands by and does nothing he can just as easily be sued by the family. As has been shown in the many "Sheepdog" threads some people can not and will not leave a person in need. If they want to help a person medical, knowing they could be sued or go to jail then so be it. It does not affect you one little bit.
    Knock yourself out
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Knock yourself out
    I have no desire to play medic, no do I have a desire to be a sheepdog. But it's their personal choice and right to do so if they so wish to. He has already stated he will do so no matter what he may face after the fact(jail,lawsuit etc.) They are all grown adults who are able to decide for themselves what they should do.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cortland County, New York
    Posts
    87

    First aid kit/emergency response

    Our instructors are certified in CPR/AED and Basic First Aid, ARC. Many of the comments are correct in that a "lay person" can not go beyone the limits of these certifications without risking first POOR JUDGEMENT, and secondly endangering the health/welfare of the victim.

    That being said, for laypersons (non medical professionals licensed to perform a higher level of response, such as EMT's, Lifeguards, nurses, those with ACLS Certification, RPAC's etc.) can get certified to apply oxygen, deliver Epinephrine, and perform more advanced medical interventions.

    We do have staff on site staff that are certified to use those things, our Kits include Epi pens (also good for those with Bee Sting allergy for example), Tampons are GREAT, dressings, shock blankets, and O2.

    It would be foolish of anyone teaching, or just shooting for fun to think nothing can happen, and being as prepared as possible is the best a layperson can be expected to do.

    A licensed health professional actually opens themselves up to possible litigation if everthing doesn't go as it should by the regs because the licensed professional "should know better", thus the good samaritan laws protect the layperson.

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