Beyond layman's first aid....
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 39

Thread: Beyond layman's first aid....

  1. Beyond layman's first aid....

    I've been working on getting some military and SRT attached medics (Dr's) to put together a Gun-Shot Trauma emergency aid course in SW Mo. It's been going well thus far, but now I've had an experience that has made this a stress item. So I'll pose this for you all to consider as instructors and to those who are not instructors, the life you save just might be someone you know.

    Do you have training beyond basic (layman's) first-aid that will give you the ability to handle a GST on the range, even if you're not instructing at that site?

    My recent experience was one in a secluded location with a sketchy cell phone signal and would have been difficult for many to find. Fortunately myself and another individual were combat veterans prepared with aid bags to handle a minor GST, which this wound up being. Given the locale it could have been much worse if our gear hadn't been with us.

    Consider it folks. Basic first-aid is just that, basic. It's not intended to handle trauma like GST, nor does it train anyone to call in first responders to secluded locations. This is where next-level training comes in to prepare ourselves to get a life-flight blow-out on site, using a purpose built GST kit with quick clot, and knowing how to take the lead while directing others to exactly what you need them to do.

  2.   
  3. #2
    I haven't gone over te syllabus but red cross and another organization (the name escapes me right now) teach different grades of "wilderness first aid" that is supposed to cover much more serious injuries that I am assuming would cover large punctures and wounds like gunshots

  4. Nor have I, but I can check into it as I should be taking a First-Aid/CPR/AED instructor's course next month. That would definitely be a step above the layman's first-aid.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
    Posts
    3,900
    You need to be careful, there is a line between "First Aid" and "Practicing Medicine w/out a License". I’ve had to disillusion quite a few “Combat Lifesavers” who were running around Co Springs w/ a bag of Ringer’s Lactate just looking for an opportunity to stick someone. A "layman" really can't go much beyond applying pressure to stop the bleeding and maintaining spinal immobilization w/out getting into the grey area.

    Bottom line ABCs, Maintain the airway, stop the bleeding and treat for shock.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    I was a paramedic for 25 years as a younger man, handled GSW's more than once, no longer a Paramedic, but still have smarts and a well stocked kit and know how to use it. Agree if you are going to be around the range, hunting, fishing or anything else you should be able to provide aid.

  7. Excellent point Treo! I don't carry saline in my kit partly for that reason and partly because I don't like needles myself. But having the other tools at your disposal are important as a pressure dressing simply may not get the job done and a tourniquet may not be applicable. Sometimes self-rescue can even come into play and that's where the training and the gear can be most vital.

    The knowledge of what to do to handle the GST is sometimes more vital than having the gear. If you have the gear and don't know how to use it then it's useless. If you have the know how, but the gear is unavailable you can improvise if absolutely necessary. Know how + the right gear = survival aid.

    Things could have been very different in this recent experience had it been secluded with no signal at all and the bleeding would not stop. Thankfully that wasn't the case. We can preach what-ifs and liabilities all day on the issue, but we all know that if someone has the know how and the willingness to act (or just react) they certainly will do just that.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteach4U View Post
    I've been working on getting some military and SRT attached medics (Dr's) to put together a Gun-Shot Trauma emergency aid course in SW Mo. It's been going well thus far, but now I've had an experience that has made this a stress item. So I'll pose this for you all to consider as instructors and to those who are not instructors, the life you save just might be someone you know.

    Do you have training beyond basic (layman's) first-aid that will give you the ability to handle a GST on the range, even if you're not instructing at that site?

    My recent experience was one in a secluded location with a sketchy cell phone signal and would have been difficult for many to find. Fortunately myself and another individual were combat veterans prepared with aid bags to handle a minor GST, which this wound up being. Given the locale it could have been much worse if our gear hadn't been with us.

    Consider it folks. Basic first-aid is just that, basic. It's not intended to handle trauma like GST, nor does it train anyone to call in first responders to secluded locations. This is where next-level training comes in to prepare ourselves to get a life-flight blow-out on site, using a purpose built GST kit with quick clot, and knowing how to take the lead while directing others to exactly what you need them to do.
    I have my own kits that are fully stocked for my own use(treating family.) I have a fully stocked black-hawk stomp medical bag with everything a BLS kit could have including a OB/GYN Kit. I don't really have much along the lines of ALS, I may take a class or two and pick up a ALS kit(again for my use.)I am going to be taking the AED/CPR class,I'm ordering a home AED(again for my use.) I have been signed up to take the Red-Cross first responder class for years but there is never enough people for it. Our state will allow you to take the EMT-B class but will not allow you to test for it(State or Nat Cert) without being on a department of some kind.

    I have first aid kits and books up the ass around the house, I learn more from reading and watching training videos. Like how to make a home made flutter valve with a piece of plastic and tape.

    First aid is a tricky thing, fine line between helping and killing someone. A lot of scanner buddies out there who have their ears glued to the scanner waiting to rush in. As far as I would go would be to try and stop someone from bleeding out, you start talking about ALS stuff(Inserting airways,IV's etc..) you get into a area you should not be in with out training. All of my gear and training is for me and my family's use.

    You also open yourself up to the risk of bloodborne pathogens when you stop and help someone. If you do decide to stop and help someone do not do it unless you have all the right PPE(Personal protective equipment) GEAR.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Iteach4U View Post
    Excellent point Treo! I don't carry saline in my kit partly for that reason and partly because I don't like needles myself. But having the other tools at your disposal are important as a pressure dressing simply may not get the job done and a tourniquet may not be applicable. Sometimes self-rescue can even come into play and that's where the training and the gear can be most vital.

    The knowledge of what to do to handle the GST is sometimes more vital than having the gear. If you have the gear and don't know how to use it then it's useless. If you have the know how, but the gear is unavailable you can improvise if absolutely necessary. Know how + the right gear = survival aid.

    Things could have been very different in this recent experience had it been secluded with no signal at all and the bleeding would not stop. Thankfully that wasn't the case. We can preach what-ifs and liabilities all day on the issue, but we all know that if someone has the know how and the willingness to act (or just react) they certainly will do just that.
    You can buy saline IV bags, you just can not buy medication IV bags with out a doctors note and or agency cover letter. They sell complete IV kits online(needles) you just have to buy the saline bags.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
    Posts
    3,900
    Quote Originally Posted by S&WM&P40 View Post
    You can buy saline IV bags, you just can not buy medication IV bags with out a doctors note and or agency cover letter. They sell complete IV kits online(needles) you just have to buy the saline bags.
    Start an I.V. on someone as a layman and let us know how that works out for you
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  11. #10
    Here come the mall ninja medics!

    Minimal formal training, simply reading a book or watching Rambo sew himself, and now everyone is a "Field Surgeon."

    In most states you risk felony charges for playing Doc without a license. If you have an EMT certificate of some kind, you risk losing it, or worse, for exceeding your legal "Scope of Practice."

    If you USED to be a paramedic, and now run around with needles and IV bags, you are on thin ice too! Depending on your state laws, you too can become an instant felon! You might also be charged with some form of "Possession of Drug Paraphrenalia" too!

    Of course, once your victims's lawyers get through with you, you will be so poor that life in the "Bighouse" is about right for your budget!

    You can't become good at medicine just by reading books and watching videos! It takes much training.

    BTW, it isn't "Standard of Care" for trauma anywhere I know of unless it is formal ATLS certification. A FAR CRY from do it yourself "Become a Field Trauma Surgeon" by reading this mall ninja book!

    Kill someone with one of those insta-clot dressings find out what kind of hero you aren't!

    -Doc

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast