The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness. - Page 3
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Thread: The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness.

  1. #21
    To BROCRAC...Not a very nice way to introduce yourself to the group. You need to READ the site rules. I believe on this site we can disagree like grownups and not go to bed angry at each other. From the looks of it you don't belong here.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    I agree with the title...for an uneducated and no training carrier a laser is false security. But i will have to agree more with titanium man that they are not useless.

    Someone stated earlier lasers are a universal language. I'm not carrying to cause death but to save Life. There are an infinite possibilities that can happen in life, so its impossible to say what would, could, can, or will happen. But if the situation arises that i can draw and tell them to stop or die, a laser to the chest is very convincing.

  4. The plus of the laser is only that you can aim without bringing the gun to eye level. Maybe that's a plus for guns you can't easily shoulder or bring to eye level, like those pistolgrip shotguns.

    It can be useful to someone who can't readily see the sights, doesn't have his glasses on, etc.

    Also, some people have claimed a psychological intimidation factor when the opponent sees the dot on him; I'm not sure sure about that, given that my use is personal defense and not LEO.

    The laser is lousy in bright light, works well in low light, but will not identify your target in no light; you still need a light.

    If there is ANY smoke, dust or fog in the air, the laser displays a line, paraphrasing that old saying, "tracers work both ways."

    On TV shows, they work great for telling the intended target that he has a gun aimed at him.

    Scopes, lasers, lights, dot sights, all can get whacked out of alignment. All but the scopes need batteries, which are most likely to die when you most need them (yeah, I know, I've used the Armson OEG too, but they are merely an oddity these days).

    I view any of the above as "accessories," perhaps useful but never to be 100% relied upon. When that scope gets whacked or the switch goes bad on the dot sight, you WILL need iron sights.

    Also, pistol lasers and many rifle lasers are mounted below the barrel. This means there can be only one point where the laser beam and bullet trajectory intersect. The logical mounting point for a laser is above the barrel, like a rifle scope, so there are two points where bullet flight and laser intersect, and divergence is not as rapid. (I wonder how long before Chiappa Arms, maker of the Rhino revolver, realizes this.)

    Lasers have their appeal and clearly are useful in some applications, but there is only a little they can do that cannot be done better with a dot sight. I don't hate them, I just realize they are not magical and they have limitations and drawbacks. I don't mind having one, so long as I still have my iron sights.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  5. #24
    Titaniumman Wrote "Blanket statement, ie: all lasers are useless! Like I said , don't be a hater! Why is it that almost all special forces weapons have a laser on board, they obviously are extremely talented with their weapons, and still choose to equip them with lasers...Must be a reason for that. I am sorry if I offended you I may have been a little direct. But I will stand by the fact that lasers DO have a place on civilian CC weapons.

    Special forces uses laser assisted scopes on their assault rifles, meaning, there is a laser that can't be seen with the naked eye but can be seen through the scope. Most of the time they don't even use that but use standard short range ACOG. They don't use the standard laser because its to hard to see in the day time, makes them a target at night. They do not use lasers on their hand guns, the Army Spec Ops tried it on their hand guns for a while but then dropped them.

    I will admit there are some uses for lasers and shouldn't have stated it like that. So for that your right. In my mindset with that situation at that time I was disgusted to the point I found them useless. I do get offended when someone attacks my instructor ability, I take it very personal. I love to debate, talk tactics and if someone has a valid point and I can learn something, awesome I am never to proud to admit when I am wrong or admit when I do not know something. But you attacked something that I take seriously and work extremely hard on and maybe you might think twice about doing that next time when you reply to someone elses post. All is good, no hard feelings.

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by rudiepop View Post
    U r looking in the mirror I presume.
    LOL That is friggin awesome and so funny you mention it being a Springfield XD .40 Full Size, I did a very similar thing with a student who had the same exact firearm, only it wasn't a laser situation this time he was just convinced his sights were off and wanted them adjusted. I picked it up and dropped 3 touching, I asked if he still wanted me to adjust his sights, he said no. But I was really only kidding with the guy alot of people make that mistake when they first start shooting hand guns and especially witih polymers. He actually got really damn good.

  7. #26
    OK I give up you must be right because you are an instructor after all....You go back to teaching retirees and I will go back to watching NCIS...Peace out!
    Just a final thought here A quick look at the LaserMax website will put to rest any doubt you may have that Law enforcement and Military use lasers on their weapons! unless they are just lending their names to increase sales of the LaserMax laser.
    Last edited by titaniumman; 06-12-2011 at 04:27 PM. Reason: wording

  8. #27
    NFTA training, I apologise, We can agree to disagree...No hard feelings here! I Just got up on the wrong side of the bed!

  9. NFTA,

    That's a great example of why they should not be allowed in a qualification course. We tell our students time and time again that the laser is a mechanical device that can and WILL eventually fail, batteries do die people and Murphy's Law says it's going to happen during a life threatening situation. Then you're stuck with the sights.

    Lasers are a luxury item that do have a place, but if you fail to train on using the sights that firearm becomes immediately useless when that laser dies. Have I used them? Yep. I even picked one up for my wife, regrettably so as I had to watch her transition from using the sights to depending on the laser. Human nature is to take the easiest methodology and commit it to memory. Well folks, the laser is the easiest methodology, but are you prepared for the consequences if you use that laser and it's been bumped out of alignment which results in you shooting an unintended target? Most justifications for the use of force would hang a shooter for shooting an unintended target.

    Were you justified in shooting the threat?
    Yes.
    Why?
    He/she was going to kill me.

    Were you justified in shooting little Sally?
    Well....um....
    What does the law say on this, was little Sally a threat?
    No, but...
    But what? You shot little Sally and were not justified to do so.
    Well, my laser wasn't hitting where it was supposed to.
    Oh, so now it's the equipment's fault and not yours. Are we supposed to believe that?
    Who sighted in that equipment?
    Well, I did.
    So it is your fault then isn't it?
    No further questions your honor.

    What do you honestly think a jury is going to say on something like that? They're probably going to convict a shooter.

  10. #29
    Good point! But why was Little Sally in my freekin' livingroom with that badguy:).....Just kidding!

  11. Lighten up Francis-LOL!!!!!! OK SGT HULKA. Great stab. so true.

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