The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness. - Page 4
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Thread: The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness.

  1. . please! just say learn to use the sights, thats what you need to learn, cause someday you may need to shoot a weapon without them and you need to understand the way to do it. and I agree lasers do not belong in a first gun class
    lessons make you better, practice, practice, practice. Any sight can be bumped off. in a fastshoot incident most of us point and shoot, as fast as we can, training and practice, that what your saying and it's true, your so right. do not fog that.
    forget the courts do that later, tell them use the sights learn the right way then use what every the heXX you want but know the right way. pull, point, squeeze, be fast but don't rush, make every shot as perfect as you can Life depend on it.
    all my teachers were all ways saying do it right all the time, if you pull a gun, there better be a real death threat to you or someone, do not use a gun to warn someone, if you get the drop on them tell them to stop being a threat in what ever way you want, but know you are giving them time to kill you or someone else. do not try to shoot a weapon out of their hand or just to wound them you shoot to stop the action and shoot center mass, or if your real good and have the time a head shot.
    a gun is a great responsibility, to use a gun is the greatest responsibility, most people miss in a gun fight at lease one shot.
    the more you train the better you get. I can tell you want to teach people to understand the myth of Lazer sights, great! your right!!! just don't fog your real and best truth, learn to use the sights.
    and take a deep breath, they do not know what they do, lead them down the path, my brother. and thank you for teaching.
    I know how hard it is to teach people who see tv and think all the things they see are true, I bet you have storys we would
    shake our heads at, of the crazy stuff people do. Deep breath, lead them, make them safe, and for god sakes go get a beer and talk to other teachers, I know it helps.

  2.   
  3. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
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    6,270
    I tend to disagree that lasers are easier...to pick up such a small dot on a moving target is much harder than picking up sights. People have a pretty good point of aim naturally, practice makes it even better. I think sights are much faster and easier to acquire. Sights are closer, in your own hands, and not moving...laser dots are farther, constantly changing depth and background...

    I still do believe in having a laser/light accessory like the x400...but i will never stop using the irons.

  4. #33
    I think people are a bit smarter than that. They will notice that their bullets are not hitting where the red dot is pretty quickly and then work on making it so they do. Which goes back to the training techniques you explained.

    You really can't help the ones anyway that buy a gun and never shoot it untill they have to on the other hand side.

  5. #34
    I agree with yolk100, a laser will never replace training, but, when you are 65yo and your eyes are not what they use to be, and you are not able to pick up that front sight blade, just after you are awaken in a dark room by an intruder. You will not only buy one, but you will be glad that you did. Its your choice to be a victim or a victor..
    A laser is just a tool, it helps even the combat zone. Get over it!
    let us know which one you have purchased.

  6. #35
    I have lasers mounted on two guns - a Ruger LCP and a Smith and Wesson model 60. The reason is that, on both of these guns, the stock sights are not very good and it is nearly impossible to mount replacements on them.

    Lasers have their place but should not replace shooting fundamentals.

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    State of Confusion
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    I have mixed feelings on their use.

    More so than use as a personal defense tool, I find lasers to be an invaluable tool for training trigger control. This especially holds true for revolvers or other guns with a strong DA trigger pull. Using a laser one can see how much the sight alignment/picture jump when the trigger is pulled. Using a laser as a feedback device allows a student to develop this skill set, which is probably the most important out of all the fundamentals of defensive shooting. Once a student has developed a good trigger pull I am more inclined to endorse the laser in personal protection. But it should never lead one into a false sense of accuracy or security.

    I find the laser suited to personal defense (for those trained with it) because it frees our peripheral view of the environment and gives an unobstructed view of the goblin. Especially true for those with poor or aging eyesight. Bad deeds come from hands. If my hands and gun are held at eye level, the sight picture actually obstructs one's view of the perp's hands. If I'm using a Weaver stance and the head is cocked and one eye closed, I've completely shut off my peripheral vision on that side. Part of a good personal defense strategy involves understanding that your enemy may be hunting in a pack. The one who confronts you in a parking lot may not be the person who will attack. The person you're holding in your living room may direct your attention from the accomplice approaching from the kitchen. You must be able to scan your 360 with constant checking of the 3:00, 9:00 an 6:00 positions without losing sight on your goblin. The laser allows one to slightly lower the arms, open both eyes and have a greater view of your fighting area.

    Lasers can also cause you trouble if not used correctly in a home invasion/burglary. Although they can be a valuable fighting tool if used properly (he who owns the night wins the fight) they can also be a dead give-away to your location in the home. Kind of hard to sneak up on the perp with a bright red dot dancing around the house. We teach students to rely on night sights to get a bead on the perp. You might then activate a weapon light and/or laser for the short period necessary to make the shot.

    For those who intend to use a laser, train with it using snap caps. Use it to develop a perfect trigger pull free of mashing, flinching and anticipation of recoil. Learn to use the device in point-shooting drills. Make sure you set the laser accuracy to the distance you need. There can be several inches of difference in point of contact between a target that's 50 feet away and one that's eight feet away. I keep all my lasers sighted for about 12 feet.

    One must also remember that in any defensive situation, a bull's eye is any hit within an eight inch paper plate as it serves to represent exposed COM.

    BC out.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    188
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I have mixed feelings on their use.

    More so than use as a personal defense tool, I find lasers to be an invaluable tool for training trigger control. This especially holds true for revolvers or other guns with a strong DA trigger pull. Using a laser one can see how much the sight alignment/picture jump when the trigger is pulled. Using a laser as a feedback device allows a student to develop this skill set, which is probably the most important out of all the fundamentals of defensive shooting. Once a student has developed a good trigger pull I am more inclined to endorse the laser in personal protection. But it should never lead one into a false sense of accuracy or security.

    I find the laser suited to personal defense (for those trained with it) because it frees our peripheral view of the environment and gives an unobstructed view of the goblin. Especially true for those with poor or aging eyesight. Bad deeds come from hands. If my hands and gun are held at eye level, the sight picture actually obstructs one's view of the perp's hands. If I'm using a Weaver stance and the head is cocked and one eye closed, I've completely shut off my peripheral vision on that side. Part of a good personal defense strategy involves understanding that your enemy may be hunting in a pack. The one who confronts you in a parking lot may not be the person who will attack. The person you're holding in your living room may direct your attention from the accomplice approaching from the kitchen. You must be able to scan your 360 with constant checking of the 3:00, 9:00 an 6:00 positions without losing sight on your goblin. The laser allows one to slightly lower the arms, open both eyes and have a greater view of your fighting area.

    Lasers can also cause you trouble if not used correctly in a home invasion/burglary. Although they can be a valuable fighting tool if used properly (he who owns the night wins the fight) they can also be a dead give-away to your location in the home. Kind of hard to sneak up on the perp with a bright red dot dancing around the house. We teach students to rely on night sights to get a bead on the perp. You might then activate a weapon light and/or laser for the short period necessary to make the shot.

    For those who intend to use a laser, train with it using snap caps. Use it to develop a perfect trigger pull free of mashing, flinching and anticipation of recoil. Learn to use the device in point-shooting drills. Make sure you set the laser accuracy to the distance you need. There can be several inches of difference in point of contact between a target that's 50 feet away and one that's eight feet away. I keep all my lasers sighted for about 12 feet.

    One must also remember that in any defensive situation, a bull's eye is any hit within an eight inch paper plate as it serves to represent exposed COM.

    BC out.
    +1 on t this ... If your gonna use it, please train with it. Devices give false hopes if you dont train with them... however, if it enhances your abilities, then by all means, use them.
    -aaron
    Ohio Concealed Carry Institute (click Link)
    N.R.A. Pistol Instructors & Range Safety Officers
    Like Us on Facebook (click Link)

  9. #38
    I really just wrote that post because I was sick and tired of unknowledgable gun store salesman and TV commercials misleading the new gun buyer. I guess in writing it, I let the complete hatred for the damn things slip out and it crossed over what the post was really about, and its true point. I wasn't trying to say, in any fashion, the people that use them are any less tactically capable or stupid. The problem with reading/writing text is it loses translation of attitude/tone and I never meant to offend anyone, or act like I was the god greatest thing to firearms instruction. Out of all the different courses we teach to different types of agencies, PSC, etc I find the CWP courses are the most challenging, a lot of times rewarding, and at times aggrevating as hell, and that is the world of civilian firearms instruction. So I apologize, not for my opinion because that will never change, but for coming off of the way I did. No need for me to keep rehashing it, just wanted to interject that, I really do not want the wrong opinion formed of me over something I wrote.

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by NFTATraining View Post
    I really just wrote that post because I was sick and tired of unknowledgable gun store salesman and TV commercials misleading the new gun buyer. I guess in writing it, I let the complete hatred for the damn things slip out and it crossed over what the post was really about, and its true point. I wasn't trying to say, in any fashion, the people that use them are any less tactically capable or stupid. The problem with reading/writing text is it loses translation of attitude/tone and I never meant to offend anyone, or act like I was the god greatest thing to firearms instruction. Out of all the different courses we teach to different types of agencies, PSC, etc I find the CWP courses are the most challenging, a lot of times rewarding, and at times aggrevating as hell, and that is the world of civilian firearms instruction. So I apologize, not for my opinion because that will never change, but for coming off of the way I did. No need for me to keep rehashing it, just wanted to interject that, I really do not want the wrong opinion formed of me over something I wrote.
    Appreciate the clarification ... no offense was taken.

  11. #40
    Like I said...Water under the bridge, FWIW There was no offence taken, I was using my lasers for trigger control and I just thought that was a very practical use, whitch made them more than "usless".

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