The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness.
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Thread: The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness.

  1. #1

    The False Security Of Laser Aiming Devices And Their General Uselessness.

    If you have talked to me for more than 5 minutes about tactics or training I am sure I told you about how I absolutley can't stand laser aiming devices. They give people false security and I absolutely despise their very existance. No one will ever change my mind on this, I don't care if Samuel Colt himself comes back from the dead and tells me otherwise.

    I estimate that 20% of my students that walk in the door for a concealed weapons class think that buying a laser dissmisses them from having to practice. I have taped over the lasers on a many of crimson trace grips during training and I do explain to our students that just because you have a red dot pointing where the bullet should go, doesn't mean it will go there unless you still practice the fundamentals of shooting: stance, grip, aiming, breathing and most important of all, trigger control. I then explain that if you grip/hold of the firearm is the wrong way, or don't learn how to manipulate the trigger, etc. its those actions that cause the bullet not to hit where it should. So even though the laser is pointed exactly where it should be your bullet will not go there and having a laser won't magically make it any different. I tell them also that unless a higher priced/better quality laser is purchased they can get knocked out of adjustment way to easy if you accidently bang the gun during cleanings, etc. Its at this point in time where I normally get the "Thats not what the guy said on T.V." look.

    I also explain this scenario "If you come home and your door is kicked in, and you decide not to wait for police and search the house your self, your laser is just making it easier for the person robbing your house to see you with you seeing them. You might as well have a huge neon sign that flashes "Here I am"

    With most gun stores I found they try to sell these types of accessories with the firearm and completely lie to the person about what it can or can't do. Either lying to make the sale or lying out of ignorance, it really doesn't matter, it makes my job harder. This got aggravating to the point to where I either needed to come up with a solution in training to remedy it, or just stop doing the concealed classes. I actually found a very very simple solution to this and I was amazed at how well it worked.

    The basis is simple: "Seeing Is Believing". I went out and bought 2 different style of used revolvers and 2 different styles of semi-automatic pistols, bought the lasers, which I swore I would never ever ever waste my money on, and let the ones who feel the way they do about them to try it out. What happens? They never hit where the laser is pointing, its then they understand what I am talking about. Its the best thing I ever did for this problem because atleast they leave my school with the proven fact they have to practice their shooting techniques.

    Out of all the training our facility does, Concealed Classes are the ones I am most concerned about. People get a lot of power simply because they have the right too, which is great, god bless America, but its those people that I want to understand that if you are going to have that power, it needs to be respected and you respect it by practicing to use it.

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  3. Well, this is only partly true. After more than 20 years in the military and anti-terrorist service I agree that a laser doesn't replace training, but it improves your chances to hit the target. Especially in a high stress situation. Using a laser in a dark environment where you can't see your target or even know where it may be is suicidal.

  4. #3
    "amen"

    (not necessarily a religious word, but I like it)
    willigun

  5. #4
    Agreed NFTA, with all you said. I have laser sights on my regular carry .45 but don't use them or practice with them. First. in a situation where I might need to access my carry gun quickly, I would have to turn the sights on, which requires precious seconds and fine motor skills to push the tiny button up. Second, I practice to develop muscle memory so that my natural aim results in a correct sight picture automatically. Third, they can burn out, and I wouldn't want to have to rely on them and be thrown off when they don't function. I have only found them to be useful as a training device to determine how much the gun moves when dry firing. But even then, they feel like a distraction.

  6. #5
    I appreciate your input. I have what I'm assuming sig1911 has, a Kimber Pro Covert II with the included grips.... I like having them but, even with them there, it automatically makes you want to use it as a crutch. This should be no match to training and skill. I think that when you purchase a firearm that "comes with" a laser, you should first have to prove that you can shoot at least a 5 inch group before using it. When the proverbial poo hits the fan, you're gonna be just as shaky as you would after running a mile... Unless your target is high on drugs and finds the laser entertaining, you're not going to have much time to respond if you solely rely on it.

  7. U r an idiot.

  8. #7
    A laser is strictly a tool for those that are already good shooters!

    I replaced the CT grips on my LCR with the stock grips. The CT grips were only slightly softer than a bowling ball-OUCH!

    I did install an XS front sight. This fits my needs perfectly!

    -Doc

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Keysville Va.
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    304
    I use the laser grips on my S & W 686 4" .357 Magnum as a training tool. I do not let anyone try them untill AFTER they learn to shoot with proper instruction in all of the requirements for good shooting and weapon safety. The laser will come out to explane a flinch or a flinch cover up and or a trigger snatch or pull as opposed to a smooth steady squeeze. No they are not for everyone but they are for me. I can also operate my 686 or my Glock Mod. #22 with or without the laser being on just by the pressure of my shooting hand and have trained myself to use the laser grips in this manner untill I need them. I will then apply pressure for the laser to come on at the same time as I am applying pressure for the trigger to travel to the rear.
    No laser's are not for everyone nor are they a cureall for everyone, but if used and trained properly with them they are a great tool for our shooting need's.
    Bill

  10. Lasers transcend all language barriers...

  11. #10
    To the OP...That is a pretty oppinionated piece you wrote there. I think for you to issue a blanket statement like that, I would think twice about attending a class taught by you. Only because I would fear that you may hold other important training information USLESS in your oppinion. That being said, there is a time and aplace for everything...INCLUDING lasers. Maybe you should teach proper use of a laser, as limited as that may be. Not just come out and call them usless. What if you become injured and can no longer raise your weapon in a SD situation, Having a laser may then be your only option. LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS! Don't be a HATER.

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