Ever failed a student? - Page 2
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Thread: Ever failed a student?

  1. I've had to fail a student. Didn't feel good about it since he was coming back from a stroke from several years previously, but he wasn't safe.

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  3. #12
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by fearhd View Post
    @ JimTh. Please don't misunderstand me. I believe everyone should own a firearm. Parents, friends or someone taught people how to use a gun properly from its conception. But as long as its State Law and I could be responsible for signing a cert for someone who has made a bad decision, I will not pass someone who is unsafe.
    And all of God's children said AMEN!!!!!! I warn people in advance that my class isn't an 8-hour quickie. Since mandatory standards were established for North Carolina's CC on December 1st , 1995, I can only remember one student who didn't pass and that was because he didn't return for FREE remedial training. If my name is on the dotted line, so is my reputation and my family's reputation. It means more to me than all the gold in the world...

  4. #13
    As an instructor it is your right and duty to not pass an individual who does not meet the requirements of your state. Here in Missouri it is a Class C Misdemeanor if an instructor falsifies information in regards to the training of those who seek a CCW permit.

    Personally I have not failed a student. My remedy is to work with each student no matter how long it takes. I to believe that having to take a state mandated class to exercise a right is bullpoop. But, until we get the law changed I will help people to stay within the law while having the ability to defend themselves.

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fearhd View Post
    As a fairly new instructor with NRA and NC Concealed Handgun instructor I'm finding it hard to fill the basic pistol course. People just want their CHL, I get it but if you don't have the basic skills I won't sign the cert. Any thoughts?
    I too am an NRA instructor and NC CH instructor. As you know, part of our requirement is that the prospective permit holder be able to demonstrate basic competency with the firearm, including safety, handling fundamentals, marksmanship and proficiency. If they don't, I fail them. My name's on that certificate too and I if I'm not comfortable with their ability to handle a handgun, I won't sign it. I'll strongly suggest they take a basic course and then try again. I don't refund their class fee. I tell everyone up front that they are responsible for making sure they have the ability to demonstrate the basic proficiency portion of the class. I provide them with the areas spelled out in the state regs (12 NCAC 09F.0102). If they sign up, they're telling me that they have that level of basic skill.

    As they are going through the process, I take notes so that I can give them areas where they need to improve. All of this is done at the range before the classroom portion. I would hate to make someone sit through the all day class and then fail the skills portion.
    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol & Personal Defense in the Home)
    North Carolina Concealed Carry Instructor

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JimTh View Post
    I am guessing that it may have something to do with the second amendment. Why is someone that open carries without a chl anymore of a risk. I understand you sell your services and I guess I am just wondering when you are going to insist that anyone wanting to purchase a firearm must first attend a ten hour class on firearms safety. How about ten hours of training before you can shoot skeet? Or how about the right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution and mandatory training is not! Most people that have firearms are well adjusted folks and probably don't need an NRA class. Just another way to tax folks...that's all...just another way to create unnecessary jobs.
    The thread was started by an NC instructor. State law requires that a participant be able to demonstrate handgun safety, handgun fundamentals, marksmanship fundamentals, presentation of firearm techniques, cleaning and maintenance and proficiency drills. He's just following state law. Virtually all of us oppose any type of 2A restrictions but if we chose to ignore the laws, we're no better than the thugs that cause us so much trouble. You've obviously not tried to instruct anyone and have no clue what is involved. You would be surprised how scary some of these people are with a handgun. Nearly every class I teach, someone shows up that has NEVER fired a gun. If state law mandates certain requirements and I'm an instructor in that state, like it or not, I'm going to adhere to the requirements the state imposes. In NC, if one of our students is involved in a shooting with a concealed weapon, more than likely, the CHP instructor is going to be on the stand talking about the instruction the student received. No way I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block by ignoring our state's standards.
    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol & Personal Defense in the Home)
    North Carolina Concealed Carry Instructor

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pir8fan View Post
    I too am an NRA instructor and NC CH instructor.
    Totally agree with you. All law-abiding citizens in North Carolina can open carry. If they don't have the skills required by law for concealed carry, they should either work to acquire them, open carry or lock it in their gun vault. Go ECU Pirates against Old Dominion!

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosher kowboy View Post
    Yes, keep up the good work. It is commendable that you adhere to the rules and fail people that are not able to meet the standards. Back in the day when I lived in Texas, out of all the CHL classes that I suffered through there was not a single one that followed the prescribed time limits for the shooting qualification.
    I teach CHL in Texas. There have been a lot of changes in the standards of instruction and who is a certified instructor. I invite you to venture back to my neck of the woods. My students always tell me my class was too short (yes, it was supposed to be 10 hours but ends up more like 13). Your dissatisfaction appears to be in your choices of instructors not the program.

  9. #18
    I have not failed a student. Usually the written test isn't an issue, I have had to have a couple come in for extra instruction before qualifying. Often the poor shooting qualification came from someone bringing a brand new gun (straight out of the box). After we have a cleaning class, we head back to the range and ensure their grip is good and the sights are accurate. Having mismatched sights on a gun will really mess you up at 15 yards.

  10. #19
    I teach a pre CC class. It involves watching four NRA videos, and taking small test and break between each video. Takes four hours, then I send them on to the state approved 8 hour CC class.

    After my class, and the class that follows, they know what corner of the gun, the bullet comes out from.

    I have never failed a student, or seen another instructor I work with, fail a student. I think a good interview going into the class should nip that issue in the bud, most always.

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
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    I've had many folk ask me to teach them "how to shoot". I tell them the first time I meet with them, will not be at a range, so don't even think you will shoot your first time out. The first time I meet with them, the first thing I do is make them take out a piece of paper and write down the four rules of safe gun handling. I let them know these aren't just sayings; if you violate anyone of these, or cannot tell me them when I ask later, I will stop the live training immediately. The first meeting, I also teach them how to properly hold a semi-auto pistol and a revolver correctly. I teach them proper grip, proper sight alignment, and proper stance, until I'm satisfied that they have it. This saves a lot of time when we do get to the range.

    When we do get to the range, my first question to them is to tell me the 4 rules. If they can't, I tell them to pack up and I'm not willing to work with them anymore. If they can we move on. With unloaded firearms, I have them show me that they can still correctly hold the weapon, have good stance and have them tell me how to achieve good sight alignment. After this has been done, only then do I introduce the ammunition and show them how to properly load the ammo into the magazine and the magazine into the gun (or ammo into the cylinder of a revolver). This is also when I incorporate the range safety rules about keeping the firearm down range, etc.. During the lesson, I will ask them the 4 rules again at random times. If they cannot tell me, we end the live fire and go home.

    I do all this when a friend asks for me to show them how to shoot. I would expect more from someone that I pay for the class. Fearhd, I applaud your commitment to sticking with your principles.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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