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Thread: Training Schools and Attitudes

  1. #11
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    Wink The 4 (ONLY) Rules of Gun Safety (Not a Safe Space)

    I thought I just leave this here:


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  3. #12
    As someone who has both worked with, trained with, and trained countless Federal Agents, Special Forces, and "average joe civilians" for over 30-years now, I support training for the reality of a gunfight.

    Training for reality requires the breaking of the 180-degree "rule."

    This can be done (and is done) safely on a regular basis by numerous shooting schools.

    Teaching someone to maneuver with people around them - even in front of them - isn't just a nicety, it's a necessity if you are claiming to prepare someone for the fight of their lives.

    In the end, training for reality makes for a safer gun owner than those who have never learned to maneuver safely with their firearms around others.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    As someone who has both worked with, trained with, and trained countless Federal Agents, Special Forces, and "average joe civilians" for over 30-years now, I support training for the reality of a gunfight. Training for reality requires the breaking of the 180-degree "rule." This can be done (and is done) safely on a regular basis by numerous shooting schools. Teaching someone to maneuver with people around them - even in front of them - isn't just a nicety, it's a necessity if you are claiming to prepare someone for the fight of their lives. In the end, training for reality makes for a safer gun owner than those who have never learned to maneuver safely with their firearms around others.
    I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but I do have a question... The person (Chris Henderson) who is attributed with the complaints about the issue gaining nationwide attention, said that one of his complaints was that neither he nor his other course-mates were made aware before putting their money on the table that live-fire exercises with people downrange would be taking place. Of all of his complaints, I personally find that one to be the most compelling. Informed consent about what one is paying for seems to me to be a moral imperative for any business that would try to escape liability should anyone get hurt during such exercises. It wasn't just the photographer who was at risk during the exercise with the guy in the wheelchair, it was the students on the line with their backs to him who were. Do you think they had a right to know and agree to such a high level of risk before being allowed to join the class? Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    I don't disagree with anything you've said here, but I do have a question... Do you think they (students) had a right to know and agree to such a high level of risk before being allowed to join the class? Blues
    Hey Blues,

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

    I was focusing on the training issue, not the marketing of the course.

    Should students know what they are paying for? Of course, and that's one of the reasons I love the internet. Today, it's easier to get information, have these discussions to sort the wheat from the chaff and get the critical feedback.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Hey Blues, Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I was focusing on the training issue, not the marketing of the course. Should students know what they are paying for? Of course, and that's one of the reasons I love the internet. Today, it's easier to get information, have these discussions to sort the wheat from the chaff and get the critical feedback.
    I don't know how the internet has anything to do with my question. The students sign a hard-copy disclaimer/release from liability form on-site before they can start a class. That's where any disclosures should be that might inure to a safety issue that a given student might decline to take the class over once he/she sees it in black and white. If they stumble upon the videos before going and know generally that such an exercise might take place, that's still not the same as informed consent on whatever contract/agreement/disclaimer/release forms they surely have to sign before starting class. The guy who started all the hoopla about the particular videos posted in this thread said that neither he nor any of his course-mates were made aware beforehand. Since he's made videos that have been posted on the internet, it sort of demonstrates that having access to the internet (and using it) didn't help him become informed about specific exercises that could be a safety concern for him or anybody else thinking about taking a course at Tactical Response, or your own school for that matter. Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #16
    As an instructor and a perpetual student, I would never put the life of my students in the hand of someone whom they and I have just met and I would never put my life in the hands of someone whom I have just met.

    The VSO instructor in the video obviously has a level of trust for the shooter. Trust is earned and built over time. However this instructor was responding to the tactical response video of the man in the wheel chair being pushed very ruggedly and shooting with persons forward of the firing line. Based on the assumption that this was a public class and the first time these students had met, that is entirely unacceptable. As a student I would leave that class immediately.
    -Thomas
    Member, ISRA; NRA Life Member & Instructor; AGI Certified Gunsmith, Illinois Concealed Carry Instructor www.alphakoncepts.com www.gunrights4illinois.com @AlphaKoncepts

  8. #17
    This looks like the dumbest job in the world.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKS View Post
    This looks like the dumbest job in the world.
    Which, instructor?

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