CCW Rules You Can Live By. - Page 3
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Thread: CCW Rules You Can Live By.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post

    ...Now, before you start flaming me........ I am NOT saying that you should shoot a cop over a speeding ticket, or refuse to give him your name, or be an idiot about small matters/situations. What I AM saying is that we each need to think about just what we will and will not allow to be done to us. We need to have the training (and resolve) to defend ourselves if/when we need to, regardless if the person we are defending ourselves from has a uniform or badge...........
    I understand what you are saying but for me the choice of shooting a LEO and for sure going to prison of being killed while being arrested versus allowing the justice system to churn and doing all you and your lawyers can to keep you out of prison WITHOUT having shot a LEO sure seems like a more prudent approach to me.

    You have already made up your mind on this...I just hope you choose correctly and your family can live with your decision.

    No flame intended just an open discussion of opinions.

  2.   
  3. #22
    Great advice!!

    I have many friends in LE, and I deeply respect their job. I also know many a-holes in LE but I still respect their job.

    As for resisting police... only in a martial law setting where TSHTF. Otherwise my answers are 'yes sir' 'no sir' and 'anything you say sir'.
    I KNOW they do not know me personally, and I know they have every right to expect the worst. If I comply with LEO and they want to take my gun while things are being sorted out I understand and I am willing to comply.
    The last time I was stopped I did exactly as you said, inside lights on, tinted windows down, hands on the wheel (You should do this even if you are not carrying) and as soon as the officer got to my window I promptly told said "Officer I'm not sure why you stopped me but I want you to know that I have a CCW and I am carrying right now" He simply said thank you then told me I had a brake light out.
    Most cops don't care if you are legally carrying and they respect the fact you had enough respect to tell them up front.
    By the way, in Florida I am NOT required to tell LEO I am carrying unless asked.
    "Work Hard, Do Your Best, Keep Your Word, Never Get Too Big For Your Britches, Trust In God and Never Forget a Friend. "

  4. Quote Originally Posted by stever1952 View Post
    Thanks for the comments Scott.

    I have been held at gun point a time or two and it is no fun looking down the business end of a gun or two with a rookie cop with an itchy trigger finger.

    If I carry I accept that LEOs may not believe I am a fine upstanding citizen upon immediate contact. I accept that I may create fear in the LEO because I carry and they do not know my intent or my history (or lack of it). I also accept that the LEO may feel the need to disarm me until they understand why I have a firearm on my person. I don't think these are unreasonable actions in todays world.

    We had a female LEO shot and killed recently so I expect other LEOs in the state to be a bit jumpy. I have no intention to make them afraid of me or to misunderstand my intent with my firearm. I will do what ever is required to protect myself from being accidentally misunderstood by my actions or lack of them.

    Resisting direct orders by a LEO is an invitation for disaster. There is nothing to be gained by doing so except for a long and difficult encounter...or maybe a very short and deadly one. Why risk it? Put yourself in their place...approaching an unknown person and suddenly finding out they are armed. That is why I would do everything I could to make sure the LEO does not see me as a threat. Compliance to their orders is easy and very well may keep you alive.

    I won't comment on the comments dealing with resisting a LEO. If you resist you can expect the full wrath (with backup) of the LEO. Not my cup of tea.
    Good post.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    OHIO
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    2,109
    Quote Originally Posted by stever1952 View Post
    I understand what you are saying but for me the choice of shooting a LEO and for sure going to prison of being killed while being arrested versus allowing the justice system to churn and doing all you and your lawyers can to keep you out of prison WITHOUT having shot a LEO sure seems like a more prudent approach to me.

    You have already made up your mind on this...I just hope you choose correctly and your family can live with your decision.

    No flame intended just an open discussion of opinions.
    Thank you for the reply.... I think you failed to read this part of the same post you quoted....

    The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

    In instance like those, would you still rely on the courts?
    The entire post (any post) is to be taken as a whole, taking a small part out of it by itself and ignoring the rest tends to make it say something it doesn't. Hence, I had already answered your post, before you wrote it.

    However, I do know what you are saying.... and it reminds me of a quote.....

    "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams


    If you will not stand up for your "Rights", that is your decision, and it is your "Right". If you have decided not to defend yourself or your "Rights" in that type of encounter, and let them railroad you into jail, that is your choice........ But you would have just taken yourself out of your families lives, and now, sitting in jail, can no longer protect them, what good has that done?

    My post was written to point out the tyranny that is getting more and more invasive upon our freedoms, and to hopefully wake up those that have not thought of how far it has gotten. We need to make the decision beforehand of just what we will allow, or we will keep backing up until there are no freedoms left to defend.

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    I would rather take a few of them with me than have them railroad me into prison with no real chance at justice in the courts.
    .
    What could you possibly be doing to even have the possibility of going to prison?

    Are you planning to turn a traffic citation into a felony resisting charge

    As was said previously, comply and grow rich from the lawsuit over an illegal arrest.

    -Doc

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    I'm really kind of amazed that anyone with any rudimentary intelligence would propose active resistance to arrest even if it is a mistaken case of arrest. There are two basic premises to any arrest situation that any LEO will look at regardless if he is mistaken about the need to arrest the person in question or not in the first place.

    1) If you flee or resist, in the mind of an LEO, you are either hiding something or are guilty as hell.

    2) The LEO will do whatever is necessary to protect himself, his/her partner, and the public at lagre including the use of deadly force. You resist arrest, you are heightening the possible perceived need to use said force.

    I clearly remember once when I was much younger and before I started to carry a badge myself, that I was in a situation that myself and three others were being placed under arrest for an allegation that another citizen made that was false. We were passive and respectful and clearly explained our side of the story, all four of us. The end result was that we were released right there as the LEOs understood that we were not to blame for the issue that we were being blamed for. Even if we were taken into custody, it's way far better to work it out at the station than to create a situation that could escalate into something that could have been prevented. You even have the right to sue for false arrest. I'm sorry that this isn't a perfect world for you and LEOs aren't always right. Another example of how to some, being a public servant means that you have to be better than human.

    You should realize that if you resist arrest, valid or not, than you will be charged with a crime in of itself, resisting arrest, and at that point it matters not whether the LEO was justified in the first place. This talk is just plain ridiculous.

  8. Axeanda45, are you ready and willing to kill a law enforcement officer today given the cause/opportunity?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Thank you for the reply.... I think you failed to read this part of the same post you quoted....

    The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

    In instance like those, would you still rely on the courts?
    The entire post (any post) is to be taken as a whole, taking a small part out of it by itself and ignoring the rest tends to make it say something it doesn't. Hence, I had already answered your post, before you wrote it.

    However, I do know what you are saying.... and it reminds me of a quote.....

    "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams


    If you will not stand up for your "Rights", that is your decision, and it is your "Right". If you have decided not to defend yourself or your "Rights" in that type of encounter, and let them railroad you into jail, that is your choice........ But you would have just taken yourself out of your families lives, and now, sitting in jail, can no longer protect them, what good has that done?

    My post was written to point out the tyranny that is getting more and more invasive upon our freedoms, and to hopefully wake up those that have not thought of how far it has gotten. We need to make the decision beforehand of just what we will allow, or we will keep backing up until there are no freedoms left to defend.
    I'm curious as to which "rights" you refer to.

    I would also be interested in getting clarification on the "illegal powers" you referred to in your earlier post.

    You may want to take another look at chapter 9 of the PC. The ONLY justification for resisting arrest is "excessive force". The fun thing is that you're not the one that gets to decide what constitutes excessive force. That would be up to the courts after the fact.

  10. #29

    Don't call me for bail money

    If you (the generic "you") want to prove what a brilliant curbstone lawyer you are and how tough you are, go ahead and screw the the cops. Just don't call me for bail money or ask for help paying for your lawyer or your undertaker, as for your widow....errrr post a picture please....


  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Thank you for the reply.... I think you failed to read this part of the same post you quoted....

    The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

    In instance like those, would you still rely on the courts?
    The entire post (any post) is to be taken as a whole, taking a small part out of it by itself and ignoring the rest tends to make it say something it doesn't. Hence, I had already answered your post, before you wrote it.

    However, I do know what you are saying.... and it reminds me of a quote.....

    "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams


    If you will not stand up for your "Rights", that is your decision, and it is your "Right". If you have decided not to defend yourself or your "Rights" in that type of encounter, and let them railroad you into jail, that is your choice........ But you would have just taken yourself out of your families lives, and now, sitting in jail, can no longer protect them, what good has that done?

    My post was written to point out the tyranny that is getting more and more invasive upon our freedoms, and to hopefully wake up those that have not thought of how far it has gotten. We need to make the decision beforehand of just what we will allow, or we will keep backing up until there are no freedoms left to defend.
    I did read your whole post but was only chose to respond to the section I quoted as I believe we agree to disagree on taking a chance with the court system so there was no need to re-hash it again. Taking a quote out of context to make a comment on part of it is very common in most forums. Quoting and requoting previous posts leads to a long and complex post as is evidenced by this one (done on purpose for demonstration purposes).

    Again, I have no intention of flaming you or trying to convince you of anything other that what you seem to believe which is the courts are not to be trusted so if a LEO who in your mind, is overly forceful to you, you will have no option but to fight back with perhaps deadly force.

    I and most others here it seems disagree with you on this. There is no argument that some courts and some police departments are biased but given the most probable outcome of any resistance to arrest I would still take my chances with the court system. There are far more options there than being killed resisting arrest.

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