CCW Rules You Can Live By. - Page 4
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Thread: CCW Rules You Can Live By.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WJN Firearms View Post
    I'm really kind of amazed that anyone with any rudimentary intelligence would propose active resistance to arrest even if it is a mistaken case of arrest. There are two basic premises to any arrest situation that any LEO will look at regardless if he is mistaken about the need to arrest the person in question or not in the first place.

    1) If you flee or resist, in the mind of an LEO, you are either hiding something or are guilty as hell.

    2) The LEO will do whatever is necessary to protect himself, his/her partner, and the public at lagre including the use of deadly force. You resist arrest, you are heightening the possible perceived need to use said force.

    I clearly remember once when I was much younger and before I started to carry a badge myself, that I was in a situation that myself and three others were being placed under arrest for an allegation that another citizen made that was false. We were passive and respectful and clearly explained our side of the story, all four of us. The end result was that we were released right there as the LEOs understood that we were not to blame for the issue that we were being blamed for. Even if we were taken into custody, it's way far better to work it out at the station than to create a situation that could escalate into something that could have been prevented. You even have the right to sue for false arrest. I'm sorry that this isn't a perfect world for you and LEOs aren't always right. Another example of how to some, being a public servant means that you have to be better than human.

    You should realize that if you resist arrest, valid or not, than you will be charged with a crime in of itself, resisting arrest, and at that point it matters not whether the LEO was justified in the first place. This talk is just plain ridiculous.
    You hit the nail on the head.

    Unless an officer is just beating you to death for no good reason, you have no recourse in the field for any action he takes.

    But honestly, how many times have you ran into a LEO who was a prick vs one who was cordial and your own actions weren't the reason he was being a prick in the first place?

    Personally, I've had two LEOs let me go with warnings over traffic violations simply because I was polite and respectful. I know this because I asked them WHY they were letting me go without a ticket and that was their answer. That lead to a short conversation about how LEOs run into people all the time that are instantly defensive and argumentative, even when they are wrong to begin with, just because they are LE.

    That being said, personally I don't believe in surrendering my firearm to an officer. If you have committed no crime or only a violation, not a misdemeanor or felony, then the LEO has no reason to disarm you and is even forbidden to do so in my state. But if he asks for it, I will kindly inform the LEO he is violating my rights under color of statute and HE can take it from my hip under duress.

    Then HE can answer for his actions in court or to his superior. I've had one LEO formally reprimanded for it once before and those can affect raises and promotions for them later. I've had FAR more be in my presence and not say a word about it. Because as the OP put it, intelligent LE know that if I were there if they got into trouble with a BG, I'm equipped to assist them if their life were on the line.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by actionshooter View Post
    I'm curious as to which "rights" you refer to.

    I would also be interested in getting clarification on the "illegal powers" you referred to in your earlier post.

    You may want to take another look at chapter 9 of the PC. The ONLY justification for resisting arrest is "excessive force". The fun thing is that you're not the one that gets to decide what constitutes excessive force. That would be up to the courts after the fact.
    That (chapter 9...) is Texas code, just one example from one state. The OP, a self-proclaimed Texas Lawman of 27 YEARS, actually had the gall to write "Remember you never have the authority to resist arrest," in his original post. He was quite wrong, it took me less than 5 minutes on google to find the TEXAS code (that he has been enforcing for 27 years) that proved he was wrong.


    The fun thing is that you're not the one that gets to decide what constitutes excessive force

    You are 100% wrong with that statement, how can you resist arrest, as the (in this example of Texas) statute/law allows, if you have already been arrested, and are in court?

    Did you read the part from the US Supreme Court??
    Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.

    For the rest of your questions, please be a little more specific, I have made multiple posts and do not know which statements you are referring to.

  4. #33
    [quote
    The fun thing is that you're not the one that gets to decide what constitutes excessive force

    You are 100% wrong with that statement, how can you resist arrest, as the (in this example of Texas) statute/law allows, if you have already been arrested, and are in court?

    Did you read the part from the US Supreme Court??
    Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.

    For the rest of your questions, please be a little more specific, I have made multiple posts and do not know which statements you are referring to.[/quote]

    Seriously??

    First of all, the courts DO decide the definition of an unlawful arrest. Even in the ruling you stated above, it does not quantify what an unlawful arrest is.
    An unlawful arrest is NOT the same thing as arresting the wrong person. An unlawful arrest is one in which the LEO BREAKS THE LAW while arresting you, and even then it depends on WHAT laws he broke.

    Again I say, if we fall under martial law and the police are being told to unlawfully arrest everyone and put us in work camps - then yes I would fight back. Other than that the only thing you will do is find your self dead.
    as for your widow....errrr post a picture please....

    LMAO!!
    "Work Hard, Do Your Best, Keep Your Word, Never Get Too Big For Your Britches, Trust In God and Never Forget a Friend. "

  5. #34
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    Since many have misunderstood what I have tried to say, let me try again....

    This statement from a prior post has EVERYTHING to do with when it would be permissable, in my opinion, to resist arrest:

    The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

    Is this site about gun laws/rights? the 2nd Amendment? Was the OP in this thread about what to do when you interact with police while armed?

    Forgive me for assuming people might just be able to remember those things when they read a reply/post in the same thread..........

    So, looking at this again:

    The courts have proven that they are biased on some types of quote "laws/regulations" and you cannot get a fair trial. There are some "Federal" agencies who have, and still do falsify evidence and lie in court. Why would you want to go along with the unlawful/false arrest if you have no other chance of justice?

    The police (mainly Federal ) have a proven track-record of abuse and even murder (Waco, Ruby Ridge, and more) They have framed honest, law-abiding citizens because their firearm broke! (Olofson)

    That type of situation is what I was talking about, if you read ALL of the posts in this thread, you would have been able to see that. Just glancing through and picking out a sentence or two and commenting on JUST THOSE SENTENCES that you took out of context and applied it to mean I would kill any cop that even looked at me sideways is unwarranted. (yes, I know I am exaggerating ) Please, read everything I have written BEFORE you call me out on something.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by Axeanda45; 01-18-2010 at 05:03 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #35
    I highly suspect that any LEO reading this thread is just cringing at the thought of running into some member of the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie crowd, wondering if some nutcase who managed to somehow get a CCW is going to try to shoot him because he is actively looking to resist to make a point about his rights

    I were an anti and an LEO, I would certainly be sharing this thread with my legislator!

    -Doc

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptAmerica View Post

    Seriously??

    First of all, the courts DO decide the definition of an unlawful arrest. Even in the ruling you stated above, it does not quantify what an unlawful arrest is.
    An unlawful arrest is NOT the same thing as arresting the wrong person. An unlawful arrest is one in which the LEO BREAKS THE LAW while arresting you, and even then it depends on WHAT laws he broke.

    Again I say, if we fall under martial law and the police are being told to unlawfully arrest everyone and put us in work camps - then yes I would fight back. Other than that the only thing you will do is find your self dead.

    LMAO!!

    Wow, just wow, I am so sorry that you have no clue... let me try again...

    YOU CANNOT RESIST ARREST AFTER THE ARREST HAS ALREADY HAPPENED!

    It is a little too late, the time to do so has already passed.....

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bighouse Doc View Post
    I highly suspect that any LEO reading this thread is just cringing at the thought of running into some member of the Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie crowd, wondering if some nutcase who managed to somehow get a CCW is going to try to shoot him because he is actively looking to resist to make a point about his rights

    I were an anti and an LEO, I would certainly be sharing this thread with my legislator!

    -Doc
    I smell a troll

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    ...Please, read everything I have written BEFORE you call me out on something.
    Thank you.
    I have read all your posts and my question stands.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussP View Post
    Axeanda45, are you ready and willing to kill a law enforcement officer today given the cause/opportunity?
    I have already answered this question in my prior posts.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    I have already answered this question in my prior posts.
    How about quoting your answer, please. Either you are or you are not - yes or no.

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