The REAL Deal! WARNING: VERY Graphic! Let it burn in and learn from it! - Page 11
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Thread: The REAL Deal! WARNING: VERY Graphic! Let it burn in and learn from it!

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    desha, arkansas
    Posts
    446
    i feel sorrow for this young officer and the one's he left behind. but if i had been in the situation when the bg advanced on me , not knowing if he had a knife or hand gun on his person as he had not been searched i would have dropped him. it's beter to err on the side of caution than to have to tell a young wife her husband was dead. i have been shot before and shot at several times so at this point in my life i'm not going to take that chance as when i was shot/shot at i was un-armed ecept for a pocket knife.
    doing what is popular is not always right and doing what is right is not always popular

  2.   
  3. Honestly I don't much worry about my fear of shooting someone in the sense of shooting them, more that I think I fear a life in prison perhaps a bit more than death. With the lack of common sense allowed to people in all situations our society both demonizes a gun owner and a LEO's right to shoot someone. If the BG deserves to die it should be a walk in the park for the cop to explain and if a cop actually acts unlawfully it should be just as easy to get a rightful conviction on that end.

    The problem is that a police officer who runs up in your house Wyatt Erp style and shoots you, he gets away with it and if you draw you go to jail.

    If this LEO had prevailed I wouldn't be suprised if he had been on trial for some reason someone drummed up, making this poor guy a victim of our legal system instead of a madmans gun. All in all people have made these two extremes hard to make sense of.

    I am not a cop but I am military and althought I have never served in combat I am familair with many excercises in which the guard "shoots" every dam person who comes close including ambulances and patients, while some other guy lets the pretend enemy walk right up take his gun and luckily only say "bang, your dead." The biggest fear on either end lacking the real life/death scenarion is passing or failing the excercise which is based in those scenarios on the when and who we can shoot premise. Some of our rules of engagement for certain situations actually requitre us to not shoot at someone pointing a gun at us and that we could only shoot if shots are fired at us. After hearing how we WILL be prosecuted and blah blah blah for shooting people who have a gun and are threatening it made me fear combat in terms of prison far more than any fear I may have had for the whole life/death thing. Honestly, to this day even just carrying my thoughts will be not "Does my life depend on it" but rather "Can I 100% definitly without a doubt not go to jail here??? ummm am I sure??? ehhh."

    The officer in the video did seem to have a shaking bit of fear in his voice, but I seriously wonder what kind of fear it was, the only real reason I carry is for others, as only the life of other people could make me feel as though jail would be worth it especially my family. This guy had no one to defend other than himself and if I were in his shoes, although I think seeing the gun would have made me feel confident legaly speaking, I just don't know how much it would take for me to overcome my fear of judges.

    I had a judge once say to me: "It would be illegal for me to rule that way"
    I thought to myself: "I won"
    Judge declares the illegal ruling
    WTF!!!!!

    That's sometihng that actually happened to me.

  4. #103
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Glendale, Arizona
    Posts
    1,257
    Sad no doubt, but who trained this guy!? No one wants to take a human life, bad or good, but come on! How many times did he repeat himself with zero results? That video should have been less than 60 seconds long. Bad guy has gun in hand, and is loading, ignoring all commands to stop. BANG, game over. This guy should have been weeded out before this ever happened to him. I don't say that in a malicious way, he was obviously not cut out to be a street officer. His family will no doubt regret his choice of occupation for the rest of their lives. Very regrettable, and PREVENTABLE.

    I re watched the video. He screams "Get Back!" a total of 18 times. Mostly at the top of his lungs. Upon sight of the weapon he screams, "Put the gun down!" a total of 6 times. All he did was prove to his assailant he was not serious. It was difficult to count how many rounds the officer fired because both were shooting. It said the assailant was hit once in the stomach, which obviously did not stop, or even slow him. There really wasn't much else he could have done wrong throughout this whole episode. Bill T.
    Last edited by billt; 07-22-2010 at 09:43 PM. Reason: re watched the video for additional commentary

  5. That was a very sad thing to watch
    but I learned a lot from it
    Stop= put the gun down= and if no immediate response=shoot the SOB

  6. #105
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Richmond Hill, GA
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalMouse View Post
    Honestly I don't much worry about my fear of shooting someone in the sense of shooting them, more that I think I fear a life in prison perhaps a bit more than death. With the lack of common sense allowed to people in all situations our society both demonizes a gun owner and a LEO's right to shoot someone. If the BG deserves to die it should be a walk in the park for the cop to explain and if a cop actually acts unlawfully it should be just as easy to get a rightful conviction on that end.

    The problem is that a police officer who runs up in your house Wyatt Erp style and shoots you, he gets away with it and if you draw you go to jail.

    If this LEO had prevailed I wouldn't be suprised if he had been on trial for some reason someone drummed up, making this poor guy a victim of our legal system instead of a madmans gun. All in all people have made these two extremes hard to make sense of.

    I am not a cop but I am military and althought I have never served in combat I am familair with many excercises in which the guard "shoots" every dam person who comes close including ambulances and patients, while some other guy lets the pretend enemy walk right up take his gun and luckily only say "bang, your dead." The biggest fear on either end lacking the real life/death scenarion is passing or failing the excercise which is based in those scenarios on the when and who we can shoot premise. Some of our rules of engagement for certain situations actually requitre us to not shoot at someone pointing a gun at us and that we could only shoot if shots are fired at us. After hearing how we WILL be prosecuted and blah blah blah for shooting people who have a gun and are threatening it made me fear combat in terms of prison far more than any fear I may have had for the whole life/death thing. Honestly, to this day even just carrying my thoughts will be not "Does my life depend on it" but rather "Can I 100% definitly without a doubt not go to jail here??? ummm am I sure??? ehhh."

    The officer in the video did seem to have a shaking bit of fear in his voice, but I seriously wonder what kind of fear it was, the only real reason I carry is for others, as only the life of other people could make me feel as though jail would be worth it especially my family. This guy had no one to defend other than himself and if I were in his shoes, although I think seeing the gun would have made me feel confident legaly speaking, I just don't know how much it would take for me to overcome my fear of judges.

    I had a judge once say to me: "It would be illegal for me to rule that way"
    I thought to myself: "I won"
    Judge declares the illegal ruling
    WTF!!!!!

    That's sometihng that actually happened to me.
    I have deployed to Iraq three times now and the ROE has changed everytime but not my mindset. I have often heard this " I would rather be tried by a jury of 12, than carried by six" Seems as though fear is what happened to the LEO. I have only had to worry about this kind of sit downrange, might be a little different stateside.

  7. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by JJFlash View Post

    6) Bottom Line to me: the average, untrained CWP holder doesn't have a chance against a determined threat like this.

    THIS SHOULD BE A WAKE-UP CALL TO ALL OF US!
    I disagree, the BG showed no tactical cunning or prowess. This was a failure on the officers part to shoot instead of yelling to put the gun down. Who knows what happened to the officers training and situational preparedness.


    It is a shame and prayers for the officers family...but this should have ended on the first rush...or when the BG started loading the rifle.

    Bang Bang and this story would have been a training film for HOW TO handle a situation gone bad.

    I hope the BG roasts in hell.


    Steve

  8. #107
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PANHANDLE, FL
    Posts
    144
    Very well thought out and articulated. I line up with you on (1) the concept of legitimate shooting defense of others while absorbing the legal backlash [prison] myself and (2) your fear [for lack of a better word] of those sworn to uphold justice [judges] ... it's an incredible statement to the 'state' George's and Thomas' country finds itself in 2010. Can the normal political process ultimately fix the core corruption this nation suffers or will high level official patriots conclude that untried and unorthodox means be necessary to clean us up?

  9. #108

    Rest in Peace Office

    Amazing gut wrenching video.

    Having spend 20 years in some of the most God Awful Chicago Housing Projects there are,
    I have drawn on people MANY MANY times and been at the point where I can clearly see every pore in the offenders forehead.I have 4 JH's on my record.(Justifiable Homicides aka GOOD SHOOTS)

    The kid was young. That in and of itself contributed to his untimely murder.


    We all can sit and armchair this until the cows come home but one fact remains:

    YOU WONT KNOW WHAT YOU WILL DO IN THE SITUATION UNTIL THE SITUATION PRESENTS ITSELF

    Trust when I tell you when it does happen it happens fast. You had BETTER be prepared to TAKE A LIFE to PRESERVE YOUR OWN.

    What would I have done in this situation?

    a. Called for back up
    b. Drawn on the subject and taken appropriate cover if available
    c. AT THE FIRST HINT OF A WEAPON: Made ONE command to drop the gun.
    d. FIRED until the slide locked back.
    e. RELOAD and repeat the above until help arrived.

    Mind you this answer is made in a calm soothing protected environment and not in the pressure cooker of the street and during a street contact.

    Additionally, I was labled as a loose cannon in the Housing Authority but despite that label, My team and I made over 503 Arrests in 2007 of which 89% were Drug and Gun related crimes. Of the 503 Arrests,we managed a 97% conviction rate.

    One thing I ALWAYS drilled into my guys heads was:

    BE READY AT ALL TIMES.

    We had a flag made for our office which was a grey cloud with a lightning bolt hitting a chalk outline of a homicide victim. Below which were the words

    "We came,we saw, we kicked their asses. When the screaming stopped the blood dried,the dust settled and the smoke cleared..........PEACE WAS RESTORED"

    My team was AGGRESSIVE and WE WERE CAREFUL. above all else

    WE WERE READY.


    Rest in Peace Brother
    You fought well your battle
    and now its time to rest.
    Rest Easy.
    See you soon!



    A BROTHER from CHICAGO.

  10. #109
    prayers being sent to this man's family.

    That being said, as soon as the guy started acting stupid/high or what ever he was doing, the leo should have had his hand on his TASER, and between the time he rushed him and the time he went to get something out of his truck, he should have zapped him. Then if the taser didn't work, his sidearm should have been trained on the guys com. and when the gun was completely in view put him down.

  11. #110
    I'm sorry if this offends anyone. The officer had plenty of opportunity to take tactical command. His lack of courage, his failure to affirmatively stop the offender by tasing or shooting him is what led to his death at the hands of this offender. The bad guy was in the open and unarmed but clearly disobeying commands, even mocking the officer, then approaching (more than once).

    The officer should have subdued him or shot him. During the gunfight the officer had plenty of opportunities to take the subject out with a clear field of fire. However multiple gunshots were exchanged with the officer not taking the tactical opportunities he had been given by the subject. Plus he displayed extremely poor marksmanship given the number of shots he fired. Instead, the subject had plenty of time to load, take cover, aim, fire and even rush the officer's position while in the open.

    While I truly sympathize with the officer's widow and children, this video is an example "How NOT to do it.".

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