The REAL Deal! WARNING: VERY Graphic! Let it burn in and learn from it! - Page 12
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Thread: The REAL Deal! WARNING: VERY Graphic! Let it burn in and learn from it!

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCW Instructor View Post
    I'm sorry if this offends anyone. The officer had plenty of opportunity to take tactical command. His lack of courage, his failure to affirmatively stop the offender by tasing or shooting him is what led to his death at the hands of this offender. The bad guy was in the open and unarmed but clearly disobeying commands, even mocking the officer, then approaching (more than once).

    The officer should have subdued him or shot him. During the gunfight the officer had plenty of opportunities to take the subject out with a clear field of fire. However multiple gunshots were exchanged with the officer not taking the tactical opportunities he had been given by the subject. Plus he displayed extremely poor marksmanship given the number of shots he fired. Instead, the subject had plenty of time to load, take cover, aim, fire and even rush the officer's position while in the open.

    While I truly sympathize with the officer's widow and children, this video is an example "How NOT to do it.".
    The "lack of courage" statement was very disrespectful. Some things are better kept unsaid.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCW Instructor View Post
    I'm sorry if this offends anyone. The officer had plenty of opportunity to take tactical command. His lack of courage, his failure to affirmatively stop the offender by tasing or shooting him is what led to his death at the hands of this offender. The bad guy was in the open and unarmed but clearly disobeying commands, even mocking the officer, then approaching (more than once).

    The officer should have subdued him or shot him. During the gunfight the officer had plenty of opportunities to take the subject out with a clear field of fire. However multiple gunshots were exchanged with the officer not taking the tactical opportunities he had been given by the subject. Plus he displayed extremely poor marksmanship given the number of shots he fired. Instead, the subject had plenty of time to load, take cover, aim, fire and even rush the officer's position while in the open.

    While I truly sympathize with the officer's widow and children, this video is an example "How NOT to do it.".
    No offence taken. I appreciate your direct assessment. Unfortunately, some will not. Although you do bring a good point to the forefront................If you're not willing to be in an armed confrontation with a mind set of taking control you should surrender your CWP and leave your gun at home. Not being a cowboy ( no offensive) or a vigilante or anything other then an armed citizen. But If you do not have the discipline to affectly deal with a armed situation then you should re-think the whole CC thing.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  4. #113
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    Wow, incredibly and completely tragic. Insanely unessassary death. The poor trooper was probably thinking this just can't be happening.God bless him. If the drunken hick isn't dead yet, the law should be considering vivisection to figure what compelled that sonofabitch to do what he did. After that, let the Fallen Officer's comrads use the sob for target practice.

  5. #114
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    I think just like any profession, some people are simply not cut out to be in it, regardless of how much they think or feel otherwise. The failure here was in the department itself for not seeing this, and weeding him out before this happened. Cops go through a battery of physical and mental testing before they graduate to gun & badge status. Much more so than most professions. It obviously completely failed here. All of it. And now a guy is dead who never should have made it this far. This was such a tragic failure, the system needs to take a couple of steps back and reanalyze it's thinking and testing methods. It seems like there are far too many cops today at one extreme, (submissive), or the other, (aggressive), of the spectrum of bad behaviour. There are simply too many Eric Scott incidents, and ones like this. Bill T.

  6. #115
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    Dallas/Fort Worth
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    Exclamation Absolutely NO Lack of Courage on the Deputies Part

    Quote Originally Posted by CCW Instructor View Post
    I'm sorry if this offends anyone. The officer had plenty of opportunity to take tactical command. His lack of courage, his failure to affirmatively stop the offender by tasing or shooting him is what led to his death at the hands of this offender. The bad guy was in the open and unarmed but clearly disobeying commands, even mocking the officer, then approaching (more than once).

    The officer should have subdued him or shot him. During the gunfight the officer had plenty of opportunities to take the subject out with a clear field of fire. However multiple gunshots were exchanged with the officer not taking the tactical opportunities he had been given by the subject. Plus he displayed extremely poor marksmanship given the number of shots he fired. Instead, the subject had plenty of time to load, take cover, aim, fire and even rush the officer's position while in the open.

    While I truly sympathize with the officer's widow and children, this video is an example "How NOT to do it.".
    I don't think "lack of courage" plays ANY part in that. That label/conclusion was way out of line IMHO. The part of "hesitation to act accordingly" sums it up as a whole. Tragically, this deputy failed at the moment of truth!

    Avoidance, deterence, de-escalation....in that order is how it is done but during ANY de-escalation phase, one must act AGGRESSIVE enough QUICKLY enough!

    "How NOT do do it" is the best example....yes.

    Punishment for mistakes must be immediate, for a dead man has no ego." General George S. Patton
    An ARMED individual is a CITIZEN! ...An UNARMED individual is a SUBJECT!

  7. #116
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    southwest Detroit
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    Be Safe

    If some one pulls a gun on you, and you have a chance to draw yours, shoot to kill. Cut and Dry. Carry On.

  8. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by American ME! View Post
    This is EXACTLY why I posted this! Basically....THE MOMENT OF TRUTH!! .....What are you going to do? And this is only a one on one scenario! What if? Think ALL about it! Think of our times we are living in today! How well are you prepared? How is your situational awareness? Threat identification? Neighborhood watch? Do you know what vehicles belong in your neighborhood? Do you keep up with police reports in your local newspaper?.... if the police even provide one? Trend monitoring of those reports? So much to consider!

    Bottom line.... are you ready? Can you do it? Will age or gender be a factor in the event of a night home invasion? Does your respective state have the "Castle Doctrine?"

    So much to consider! I could write a novel on this, but I'm sure you folks get the gist of what I'm applying here!
    there is a huge diffrence between training to shoot holes in papers, and fire at a moving threat that is firing AT you at the same time.
    few places offer such serious training that will bring you to tears while you fire.
    im not here to drop names of places, but there are 3 top training facilities in the states that offer the best.

    you must be able to fire, and keep firing, at a ''wink of an eye danger that comes at you''.
    so many people in other gun blogs just come online to show off and pretend they are ''macho''.
    MOST shooters i encountered on a firing line, just shoot to either impress others, or impress themselves.
    REALITY shooting IS NOTHING like shooting at a still paper that is set up where YOU want it, just at the right distance, and not moving.

    It seems to me that the people in this site are not like most people i have read in other sites. I think and hope that the people here are not myspacers who are trying to impress , But instead are real reality-based Americans who talk with respect and courtesy, which is why i have joined here.

    BTW: what i typed here is not in any way to dis-agree with the comment that im replying about, but to further mention that we are here to help and learn, we ALL learn. When you pretend that you know it all and stopped learning, All you did is stop learning.

    I hope my text came out the way i ment it--not at all disagreeing and not at all demaning. Just as something for the new readers here to read.
    One day we may all need to stand shoulder to shoulder to defend what we know is right.
    PS: Law is NOT right! Law is just that: written words by those who made decisions.
    What you know in your heart is right --THAT is what counts and THAT is what charecter is made of.

    Apologies for any misspellings
    Last edited by The Wolf; 10-21-2010 at 04:20 AM. Reason: typos
    Whenever there is doubt, There is no doubt.

  9. #118
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by billt View Post
    I think just like any profession, some people are simply not cut out to be in it, regardless of how much they think or feel otherwise. The failure here was in the department itself for not seeing this, and weeding him out before this happened. Cops go through a battery of physical and mental testing before they graduate to gun & badge status. Much more so than most professions. It obviously completely failed here. All of it. And now a guy is dead who never should have made it this far. This was such a tragic failure, the system needs to take a couple of steps back and reanalyze it's thinking and testing methods. It seems like there are far too many cops today at one extreme, (submissive), or the other, (aggressive), of the spectrum of bad behaviour. There are simply too many Eric Scott incidents, and ones like this. Bill T.
    TOTALLY agree
    Whenever there is doubt, There is no doubt.

  10. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmarine01 View Post
    If some one pulls a gun on you, and you have a chance to draw yours, shoot to kill. Cut and Dry. Carry On.
    never ever shoot to kill


    ONLY shoot to stop the threat, keep firing until the threat is gone.
    Last edited by The Wolf; 10-21-2010 at 04:30 AM. Reason: codes showing in txt
    Whenever there is doubt, There is no doubt.

  11. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
    there is a huge diffrence between training to shoot holes in papers, and fire at a moving threat that is firing AT you at the same time.
    few places offer such serious training that will bring you to tears while you fire.
    im not here to drop names of places, but there are 3 top training facilities in the states that offer the best.

    you must be able to fire, and keep firing, at a ''wink of an eye danger that comes at you''.
    so many people in other gun blogs just come online to show off and pretend they are ''macho''.
    MOST shooters i encountered on a firing line, just shoot to either impress others, or impress themselves.
    REALITY shooting IS NOTHING like shooting at a still paper that is set up where YOU want it, just at the right distance, and not moving.

    It seems to me that the people in this site are not like most people i have read in other sites. I think and hope that the people here are not myspacers who are trying to impress , But instead are real reality-based Americans who talk with respect and courtesy, which is why i have joined here.

    BTW: what i typed here is not in any way to dis-agree with the comment that im replying about, but to further mention that we are here to help and learn, we ALL learn. When you pretend that you know it all and stopped learning, All you did is stop learning.

    I hope my text came out the way i ment it--not at all disagreeing and not at all demaning. Just as something for the new readers here to read.
    One day we may all need to stand shoulder to shoulder to defend what we know is right.
    PS: Law is NOT right! Law is just that: written words by those who made decisions.
    What you know in your heart is right --THAT is what counts and THAT is what charecter is made of.

    Apologies for any misspellings
    The last couple of sentences bring to mind a quote by Thoreau:

    "Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice."

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