The REAL Deal! WARNING: VERY Graphic! Let it burn in and learn from it! - Page 3
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Thread: The REAL Deal! WARNING: VERY Graphic! Let it burn in and learn from it!

  1. #21
    Hi board! New here.

    If I may humbly chime in:

    OC= Oleoresin Capsicum, aka Pepper spray
    ASP = telescoping tactical baton. ASP-USA.COM

  2.   
  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MI .45 View Post
    Ken,

    What is OC and ASP?

    Mike
    Pepper spray and a popular brand-name collapsible baton.
    Gun control: Forcing a 95lb woman to fist fight a 300lb rapist

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    You sure about that? I've never ran across any federal law, yet, that says you can't have one in a commercial vehicle.

    As far as state laws, wouldn't a conceal carry that reciprocates in other states be sufficient?

    Seems the only limit would be your employer's policy and well.......

    Just wondering if you have any specifics, I'm still researching for a friend.
    That pretty much sums it up. A truck is treated like any other vehicle in regards to legal firearms possession. The problem is that if you are an OTR driver, there is a very high likelyhood that you will either load or unload in an anti-gun state. (IL, NJ, NY, CA, MD, D.C.). Even in gun-friendly states, federal buildings and military bases are off limits.

    Then of course there is company policy, which you may or may not care to abide by.
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

  5. #24
    This is definitely a gut wrenching video to watch... My fists were tense and sweaty while watching this. I guess I am searching for a rational explanation to the Deputy's hesitation to fire upon this suspect... One way I am looking at this is by comparing the incident to information gathered and published in retired Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's book "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning To Kill in War and Society".

    This is a great book that provides a tremendous amount of insight into the psychological thought processes and reactions to lethal force situations. He postulates that there are four psycological reactions to stress and confrontation instead of just two. There is the "fight or flight" response, and Grossman also adds "posturing" and "submission" to the mix.

    In the book it is written that most people, citizens, soldiers, LE's alike will either run away, posture, or submit during a confrontation. The number of people that are willing to fight is by far the small percentage. People may think that they are ready and willing to protect themselves and others with lethal force, but no one will ever know until they are put in that situation. The deputy's continuous shouting of verbal commands well after the point where lethal force was justified appears to me to be posturing... He eventually transitions into "fight" mode, but it is too late.

    My heart most definitely goes out to his family, and to Deputy Dinkheller and all who gave the ultimate sacrifice to protect us and our freedom.
    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." -- Mark Twain

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    That pretty much sums it up. A truck is treated like any other vehicle in regards to legal firearms possession. The problem is that if you are an OTR driver, there is a very high likelyhood that you will either load or unload in an anti-gun state. (IL, NJ, NY, CA, MD, D.C.). Even in gun-friendly states, federal buildings and military bases are off limits.

    Then of course there is company policy, which you may or may not care to abide by.
    Anti Gun states or states that don't have reciprocity become federal transport situations with a locking storage box placed in the side box of the truck.

    Company policy is easy to get around if it is your own company.

    I have made delivery to military facilities as well. The procedure I experienced was to declare it to the security upon arrival and surrender the weapon until leaving the premises. I don't do that kind of work anymore though. I put in my time and I do a nice easy run. SSDD kind of job.

  7. Training is very important but first one must have the will to shoot. if you value a evil doers life above your own you will lose and most likely die.

  8. #27
    It makes me sick to my stomach to watch this. So many things went wrong but mainly the deputy wasn't trained properly or mentally prepared for using lethal force. He should have shot the guy the second he produced the gun.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    This is definitely a gut wrenching video to watch... My fists were tense and sweaty while watching this. I guess I am searching for a rational explanation to the Deputy's hesitation to fire upon this suspect... One way I am looking at this is by comparing the incident to information gathered and published in retired Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's book "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning To Kill in War and Society".

    This is a great book that provides a tremendous amount of insight into the psychological thought processes and reactions to lethal force situations. He postulates that there are four psycological reactions to stress and confrontation instead of just two. There is the "fight or flight" response, and Grossman also adds "posturing" and "submission" to the mix.

    In the book it is written that most people, citizens, soldiers, LE's alike will either run away, posture, or submit during a confrontation. The number of people that are willing to fight is by far the small percentage. People may think that they are ready and willing to protect themselves and others with lethal force, but no one will ever know until they are put in that situation. The deputy's continuous shouting of verbal commands well after the point where lethal force was justified appears to me to be posturing... He eventually transitions into "fight" mode, but it is too late.

    My heart most definitely goes out to his family, and to Deputy Dinkheller and all who gave the ultimate sacrifice to protect us and our freedom.
    Sadly, this deputy made every mistake that could've been made in this scenario! I have watched the vid over and over and this deputy was more worried about proper protocol than acting according to what the situation warranted!

    Posturing was long over when the guy lunged at him the first time. When he saw that rifle in his hands is when the shooting him should've immediately commenced!
    An ARMED individual is a CITIZEN! ...An UNARMED individual is a SUBJECT!

  10. #29
    Tragic. Further proof that there is no such thing as a routine traffice stop and that there are crazed, evil, messed up lunatics everywhere. God rest this LEO's soul. It's a shame this didn't turn out different. The perp should have been shot the first time he rushed the deputy. He would have been well within the law to do so.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina/Charleston
    Posts
    2,388
    Very bad training in almost anything we do can lead to very bad results. When it comes down to policing, firefighting and just plain citizen CC, you had better know what you are doing. In SC we made national news on a terrible fire at a furniture store where 9 firefighters were killed---there is very little doubt that the primary cause of their deaths was very poor procedures, which are a much a part of training as anything else. This video was very upsetting and as soon as I finish this post, I am going to try and find a verifiable address to send a note and a contribution to that officer's family. I suggest we all do something like that.

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