Now THIS is a LEO encounter! - Page 6
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Thread: Now THIS is a LEO encounter!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mule659 View Post
    Well thanks for you opinion on my post, as if I care. Now, keyword in your satement being bad guys "usually" keep their weapon concealed. Yes I know they don't want to bring attention to themselves, but if they know they they can just strap on a gun and not legally be checked, then score one for them. Why is it such a big deal to show a permit or an ID for a quick check if you're carrying a gun? If someone doesn't want to be checked then they should get off their lazy ***** and get a CCL ( in areas where it's available ) I am all for people legally carrying and having a right to defend themselves, believe me I love the fact that I can have my firearm to defend myself. I carry every day, everywhere I legally can. I just don't understand why anyone wants to open carry. Is it to make you look cool? I just don't understand why anyone wants to open carry that way and I can still defend myself and my family if necessary. I'm not into carrying to look "cool" or "tactical", I'm do it for safety and to stay alive. If I'm walking around town and see some guy with a gun strapped to his waste that is not in some sort of uniform or displaying a badge, I am automatically on the defensive. Granted, he is probably a law abiding guy...but what if he's not? I don't live in a fantasy world where everyone walking around town with a gun is a good guy, I live in a world where there is a guy with a gun that I don't know, therefor I do not trust that he does not wish to shoot me.
    You obviously do care or you wouldn't have responded. You come across as an anti in the sense that rights are okay as long as you agree with them.

    but if they know they they can just strap on a gun and not legally be checked, then score one for them
    Right, because crooks love drawing attention to themselves. Let's say that this is true. That crooks, if they knew they could OC without being stopped, did so. In your view you would rather they cc'd because not knowing someone around you had a firearm would make you safer?? Personally I would like to know if anyone around me is armed.

    I just don't understand why anyone wants to open carry
    You don't have to understand it. You should respect it though. There is a reason that OC w/o a permit is legal in many states. It has long been viewed that those who wished to conceal their firearms were of shady character. There are many other reasons to OC. To name a few: deterrant to criminals, comfort and a faster draw if weapon is needed.

    I'd rather people not know I have a gun, it keeps everyone at ease
    It sure does. Including that criminal that sees you as a soft target. While I don't go out of my way to make people uncomfortable I am not concerned if my OC makes them nervous.

    If I'm walking around town and see some guy with a gun strapped to his waste that is not in some sort of uniform or displaying a badge,, I am automatically on the defensive
    I assume everyone around is armed and a possible threat, whether I see a firearm or not. It's called situational awareness.

    I don't live in a fantasy world where everyone walking around town with a gun is a good guy
    And I don't live in fantasy world where everyone I don't see with a gun isn't carrying one and that they are "good guys".

    Why is it such a big deal to show a permit or an ID for a quick check if you're carrying a gun?
    Because carrying a firearm is a legal right. As American citizens we should not be expected to be detained and made to provide papers for conducting ourselves in a completely legal manner. Also, just because a person who is carrying a firearm has provided their government ID to a government official does not mean that they are not going to commit a crime if that is their intention.

    Now change "carrying a gun" from your last quote to "walking down the street" or "driving a car", how about "at the park with your kids". After all you might be up to no good or driving without a license, maybe your a kidnapper or pedophile. The list can go on and on.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    You obviously do care or you wouldn't have responded. You come across as an anti in the sense that rights are okay as long as you agree with them.



    Right, because crooks love drawing attention to themselves. Let's say that this is true. That crooks, if they knew they could OC without being stopped, did so. In your view you would rather they cc'd because not knowing someone around you had a firearm would make you safer?? Personally I would like to know if anyone around me is armed.



    You don't have to understand it. You should respect it though. There is a reason that OC w/o a permit is legal in many states. It has long been viewed that those who wished to conceal their firearms were of shady character. There are many other reasons to OC. To name a few: deterrant to criminals, comfort and a faster draw if weapon is needed.



    It sure does. Including that criminal that sees you as a soft target. While I don't go out of my way to make people uncomfortable I am not concerned if my OC makes them nervous.



    I assume everyone around is armed and a possible threat, whether I see a firearm or not. It's called situational awareness.



    And I don't live in fantasy world where everyone I don't see with a gun isn't carrying one and that they are "good guys".



    Because carrying a firearm is a legal right. As American citizens we should not be expected to be detained and made to provide papers for conducting ourselves in a completely legal manner. Also, just because a person who is carrying a firearm has provided their government ID to a government official does not mean that they are not going to commit a crime if that is their intention.

    Now change "carrying a gun" from your last quote to "walking down the street" or "driving a car", how about "at the park with your kids". After all you might be up to no good or driving without a license, maybe your a kidnapper or pedophile. The list can go on and on.
    Clearly we have a difference of opinion here. You imply that I'm an anti? You sir are a moron if that's what you believe.

    You want to lecture me on situational awareness? I was in one of the best Marine Infantry platoons you will find anywhere and did 3 deployments into Iraq, when fights where still a common occurance there. Starting with the initial invasion, then the battle for Fallujah in 2004, and back in Fallujah in 2005...I know a thing or two about paying attention to my surroundings.

    Now that I have all that out of the way. I'm not saying that most bad guys won't do everything they can to avoid drawing attention...i'm just saying it's very possible that one could be smart enough to realize that he didn't have to worry at all about being bothered, while at the same time having his weapon of choice right on his hip...yes I realize this may sound a little far fetched...but it is very possible. You say it can make you look like a soft target not to have your gun out showing? Well, if I was a bad guy intent on doing harm the first person I would shoot is the one who I know is armed, therefor it could be looked at as paiting a bullseye on your back. I think having the element of surprise is key. Like I said before...I can't think of any real advantage to open carry over concealed, except trying to look "tacticool" and show of that you have a gun. Obviously you do not like my opinion...even to the point of implying I am anti gun, which as I said is stupid. Still doesn't change my mind or my opinion.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mule659 View Post
    Clearly we have a difference of opinion here. You imply that I'm an anti? You sir are a moron if that's what you believe.

    You want to lecture me on situational awareness? I was in one of the best Marine Infantry platoons you will find anywhere and did 3 deployments into Iraq, when fights where still a common occurance there. Starting with the initial invasion, then the battle for Fallujah in 2004, and back in Fallujah in 2005...I know a thing or two about paying attention to my surroundings.

    Now that I have all that out of the way. I'm not saying that most bad guys won't do everything they can to avoid drawing attention...i'm just saying it's very possible that one could be smart enough to realize that he didn't have to worry at all about being bothered, while at the same time having his weapon of choice right on his hip...yes I realize this may sound a little far fetched...but it is very possible. You say it can make you look like a soft target not to have your gun out showing? Well, if I was a bad guy intent on doing harm the first person I would shoot is the one who I know is armed, therefor it could be looked at as paiting a bullseye on your back. I think having the element of surprise is key. Like I said before...I can't think of any real advantage to open carry over concealed, except trying to look "tacticool" and show of that you have a gun. Obviously you do not like my opinion...even to the point of implying I am anti gun, which as I said is stupid. Still doesn't change my mind or my opinion.
    Internet wars are so much fun. I was almost late for Church writing that stupid reply earlier.

    If you were paying attention I did not call you a flat out anti. I stated you come across as one in the sense that gun rights are great, as long as you agree with them.

    I agree with your hypo about the bad guy with his weapon on his hip is possible. Not probable, but possible. Even still my position stands. Unless LE has reasonable suspicion that the person has, or is about to commit a crime, leave them alone...! Demanding that papers be provided, running name and serial number checks etc.. is going way to far. I see no reason why the LE can not make an attempt at consensual contact. But if the person chooses not to answer questions that is their right.

    I also agree that if a bad guy is intent on doing harm you may be a prime target. However,,, this assumes that said bad guy notices a normally dressed person openly carrying a firearm. Most crooks tend to have tunnel vision while committing a crime. They tend to look for people in uniforms or those wearing shiny things on their chest. I would bet money that if you were OC'ing in a store. You were standing gun side to the door with you arms folded across your chest and a crook came in to rob the place he wouldn't even notice you OC. Now change your position to arms at sides standing in an isle. Still think they would notice?

    Now if a crook was casing the place to see what type of resistance they might encounter and they saw you and I standing there and noticed we were both openly carrying what do you think they would do? Crooks usually operate on a risk/reward formula. They may be stupid but most of them don't want to risk serious bodily injury or death over a few hundred $'s. There is a reason that statistically banks with armed guards have a lower chance of being robbed than banks without.

    CC'ers keep talking about this element of surprise. They see themselves as "tacticool" operators, (had to throw your term back at you) who can deploy a weapon from concealment and save the day. Hooray!!

    This relies on the assumption that after the crime is already in progress you will be able to draw from concealment without alerting the bad guy to your actions.

    There is not "right" way to carry. Both options have advantages and disadvantages. We could paint what if scenarios all day long. There is a really good article on OC vs. CC. I'll look for it and paste for your viewing pleasure if you're interested.
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  5. #54
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    And how is this about an LEO encounter???

  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    And how is this about an LEO encounter???
    Um well you see.........HE STARTED IT!!! Sorry for the thread jack. I'm done.
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  7. #56
    Open carry of loaded firearms on foot is not allowed in any incorporated area where the discharge of weapons is prohibited. This restriction includes most public portions of California. But loaded handguns carried openly in belt holsters, or long guns employed for sport, are legal in some rural areas. Loaded firearms may also be carried at a campsite or temporary residence such as an "in camp" RV. RVs on public roads would not qualify for this exception.
    A traveler may openly carry an unloaded handgun while on foot in most public areas of California if no ammunition is in the weapon or in any magazine or clip "attached" to the firearm. This would mean that an unloaded pistol in a belt holster would be legal as long as the loaded magazine is in plain view and not inserted in the pistol. This type of carry is O.K. as long as it does not occur in a prohibited area such as a school, government building or state capitol grounds. (Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the 50 States 2011)

    Draw your own conclusions.

    As for the officer, I believe he was far more than gracious with this individual. He could have been hard nosed and requested identification to the point of taking the individual, in handcuffs, to the station. When told that no action is to be taken against them, why would an individual really feel the necessity to withhold their name? Paranoid? Use an alias.

    To answer the question - I have an idea the officer knows the law. If he stayed awake during training, he probably decided to take the easy way out of this situation.
    “Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.” - Jeff Cooper

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AriKona View Post

    As for the officer, I believe he was far more than gracious with this individual. He could have been hard nosed and requested identification to the point of taking the individual, in handcuffs, to the station. When told that no action is to be taken against them, why would an individual really feel the necessity to withhold their name? Paranoid? Use an alias.

    .
    On what grounds could he have taken this person to the station? Seems to me that would constitute a false arrest.

    Why would the individual feel it necessary to withhold their name? How about because it's none of officers business what his name is. You say what's the big deal if gives it. I say what's the big deal if he doesn't? What is giving his name to the officer going to accomplish?

    As far as using an alias. I don't know about CA but in a lot of states that is considered "Providing false information to a police officer" and is punishable.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    There is not "right" way to carry. Both options have advantages and disadvantages. We could paint what if scenarios all day long. There is a really good article on OC vs. CC. I'll look for it and paste for your viewing pleasure if you're interested.
    But their certainly is a wrong way to carry, leaving your sidearm at home. OC or CC, but remember to carry and carry often.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by g50ae View Post
    but their certainly is a wrong way to carry, leaving your sidearm at home. Oc or cc, but remember to carry and carry [s]often[/s] always..
    fify
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

  11. #60
    G50AE is always spelled with capital letters.

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