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Thread: OC confronted by police

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    But to sign the paper don't I have to provide my name? Just funnin with ya.
    No, as you stated above one could sign the paper work as John Doe. I would rather give no name then a false name,thus opening myself up to arrest for providing false information to Law Enforcement. As I also stated above I would leave and move to the public sidewalk in front of the store.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

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  3. #52
    Join Date
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    For all you guys. I've been pushing the issue just to get everyone's pulse on this subject. I will concede that you are all correct. Despite the number of people who get arrested over such issues it's wrong to arrest someone just because they don't want to show ID or provide info when they are not breaking the law. There are a lot of strong sentiments here on the subject. A lot of good expert opinions as well. Good discussion. Gotta run, dinner's ready.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    For all you guys. I've been pushing the issue just to get everyone's pulse on this subject. I will concede that you are all correct. Despite the number of people who get arrested over such issues it's wrong to arrest someone just because they don't want to show ID or provide info when they are not breaking the law. There are a lot of strong sentiments here on the subject. A lot of good expert opinions as well. Good discussion. Gotta run, dinner's ready.
    I would not say expert, just personal opinions on the matter as you asked for.

    Lets say someone did show ID but it was a non photo ID, the officer arrests the person for not showing/having photo ID on them? Would you support that arrest? Do you know all of your personal information to heart,SSN,B-Day,DL number,home address,zip,phone etc..???

    I made it a point to know all of my information by heart, so if I ever did get stopped and my ID was left at home(as I do often.) I could still give the officer my information(should they have just cause for asking for it.)

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    You're referring to a tactic called "deflection."

    Actually I'm at a certain point in a book where a related issue arises... the right of free speech and the powers of law enforcement to silence it. My position on a topic need not be substantiated. It's an opinion not an absolute.

    But since you bring it up it definitely applies in this situation. You have no first amendment right. We don't seem to have any rights at all anymore. Go down to the local mall get up on your soapbox and exercise your free speech about Obama. Mall security will ask you to leave. Keep talking and the police will arrive. They will ask you to stop. If you don't they will ask for ID. If you don't provide ID or stop talking you'll probably get arrested for trespass. Now when you get to your arraignment keep exercising your first amendment right to the judge. He'll charge you with criminal contempt of court. And if you don't provide proof of who you are you'll be printed and held until they can figure out who you are.
    I believe Trace Adkins said it best:
    Excuse me
    First amendment?
    Son, the first amendment protects you from the government
    Not from me
    You can say whatever you want to out there
    You come within reach of me
    I'll exercise my right to give you a good ol' country ass whoopin'
    Is what I'll do for you
    By God
    The first amendment applies to the government repression of free speech. Your example of standing on a soapbox in the mall is completely 100% inapplicable to the first amendment. Because the mall is private property. They have every right to remove a person from their private property for whatever reason they want to. And once they (meaning those with authority and control over their own private property) ask you to leave, and you don't, then you are violating the trespassing laws and the police can enforce the trespassing law that you are breaking.

    Now, let's say you are saying something, or doing something that the police don't like. Like, let's say carrying a firearm in a crowded theater. And let's say that since the police don't like you carrying a gun in the crowded theater because a patron has called them and said there is a man carrying a gun in a theater so they show up and remove you from said theater and tell you to lock your gun in the car and then you can go back into the theater. Then what happens? Do you know the answer?

    And, by the way, it's not a first amendment issue to make it illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater.... it's illegal to intentionally induce panic in a crowd.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Komifornia
    Posts
    13
    When I OC, I do not challenge a LEO... I work with them to move past the stop as quickly as I can. After the stop, I will try to open a dialog to teach them things they may not know. That being said... Komifornia is not a stop & ID state, you can refuse to show ID here (if you do, make sure you are 100% legal & right).
    Why do I carry a gun? Well, because I can't carry a cop!
    The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

  7. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    But to sign the paper don't I have to provide my name? Just funnin with ya.
    Actualy no, I don't think you do because most times the cops signs as a witness that he saw you "make your mark " as it were
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. #57
    Papers please! Hey, I said please.
    A man's life, liberty, and property are only safe when the legislature is NOT in session. Will Rogers

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Raidenko View Post
    When I OC, I do not challenge a LEO... I work with them to move past the stop as quickly as I can. After the stop, I will try to open a dialog to teach them things they may not know. That being said... Komifornia is not a stop & ID state, you can refuse to show ID here (if you do, make sure you are 100% legal & right).
    But you do have to stop and comply with a that firearm check by the officer to confirm the firearm is not loaded. Does not matter much now anyway, as I recall reading/watching your state legislators just passed a state wide ban on OC did they not?

    California Penal Code 12031 (e), is it not??

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  10. #59
    I understand that this can be an emotional subject, but why can't things be discussed calmly without invective and snide commentary? Those who use name calling and hot button responses certainly detract from their side of the issue. How strongly one feels about an issue does not affect whether you are right or wrong. So everyone should try to be civil and discuss things calmly and learn to appreciate opposing opinions. Some posters are childish and illogically verbally defiant

  11. Quote Originally Posted by S&WM&P40 View Post
    But you do have to stop and comply with a that firearm check by the officer to confirm the firearm is not loaded. Does not matter much now anyway, as I recall reading/watching your state legislators just passed a state wide ban on OC did they not?

    California Penal Code 12031 (e), is it not??
    The ban is still in legislature and has not been passed yet. I think it will be a good thing if they ban open carry. Given the "may issue" status of CCW permits in California, and the high denial rate in some counties, I think an open carry ban will strengthen Supreme Court cases against California and, hopefully, force them to allow a person who can lawfully possess a firearm to also be able to carry that firearm in some form or another.

    We've had very good luck in the US Supreme Court on the "keep" portion of the 2nd Amendment. Now it's time to work on the "bear" portion of the 2nd Amendment, and in order to do that we need a state to ban all firearms carrying, or come close to it. My vote is for California or New York.

    If it wasn't for the bans against keeping firearms in DC and Chicago, we wouldn't have the Heller and McDonald decisions. Of course we wouldn't have those decision without those "extremist" guys Heller or McDonald either.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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