Decision to make if an officer pulls you over for a routine traffic violaiton - Page 10

View Poll Results: Tell or not to Tell

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  • Tell officer you have a weapon

    76 60.80%
  • Say nothing

    49 39.20%
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Thread: Decision to make if an officer pulls you over for a routine traffic violaiton

  1. #91
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    Hey Navy, Desert and Dean: I am as much a miscreant on this forum as the rest of you but after g-d knows how many replies, and replies to replies, do any of you really think you are getting anywhere anymore? Methinks the topic of this thread has been lost a long time ago by all of you. Trying to find comments by others that add something to this forum thread is like walking further into a swamp looking for dry land.

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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    Law requires it in Texas and is connected to your drivers license, they know.
    Same for North Carolina. Like you, I find being in a gun friendly Southern state does make dealing with law enforcement much easier.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Deserteagle,

    If more people took the effort to fulfill their responsibility of protecting themselves from violent crime, there would be less for the police to investigate.
    Supposing even that the police find, and the criminal "justice" system punishes your murderer, you're still dead. Your insurance carrier (assuming you have one) is going to do FAR more for your family after you're dead than the police ever will or indeed CAN do.

    Of course in the cases of Michael Pleasance and the men on the Danziger Bridge, one would have to believe that the police were going to conscientiously investigate THEMSELVES. In neither case did that happen.

    Excusing police misconduct and criminal activity on the basis of:
    • The police will "protect" you from crime as an individual.
    • The police will "investigate" your murder or maiming.
    • "Everybody does it." (theft and violent crime)

    is destructive of the rule of law, and ultimately ordered liberty.

    You just have to ask yourself, "How's that working in Mexico?"

  5. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Navy, Desert and Dean: I am as much a miscreant on this forum as the rest of you but after g-d knows how many replies, and replies to replies, do any of you really think you are getting anywhere anymore? Methinks the topic of this thread has been lost a long time ago by all of you. Trying to find comments by others that add something to this forum thread is like walking further into a swamp looking for dry land.
    Simple solution: don't walk into the swamp...
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    "Posse Comitatus", Google it. Oh yeah, another thing for you to not "study".


    Compared to the Chicago PD torture ring, Abu Ghraib was a sorority hazing. And it went on for longer than the U.S. has been in Iraq. But that's not something you care to "study".
    You continue to go around my point. I have proven you hate the police for other reasons but you still wont admit it. Im also not sure the Chicago torture ring was worse than the murder of innocent people. Murder is typically viewed as being worse than torture... And calling Abu Ghraib a "sorority hazing" is an understatement.

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Deserteagle,

    If more people took the effort to fulfill their responsibility of protecting themselves from violent crime, there would be less for the police to investigate. In reality, our entire justice system does very little to punish criminals or rehabilitate them. Yes, I am thankful when the police efforts and the justice system does some good to take the criminal off the streets and when there is a criminal that is really rehabilitated. But that situation is a very small minority. Ultimately, it is going to come down to my ability to defend myself from the criminal - and even if the police do investigate the aftermath of the crime, I have little comfort in the U.S. correctional system to be able to do anything with that criminal other than keep them off the street - at my tax dollars expense - for a few months, before turning them loose in public again with a few dollars in their pocket.
    Maybe this sounds a little harsh, but it seems like you are advocating taking justice into your own hands by threatening or shooting every criminal regardless of what they do because our justice system does not work great. Obviously prisons do not rehabilitate, they simply remove criminals from society. And yes I agree we need to protect ourselves. But that doesnt mean we can shoot everyone, and if there weren't police around, then that is certainly what would happen.

    Police have to serve as a neutral, middle-man that makes sure people are doing what society wants. They will not always be neutral people because they are hired from our human population, and some if not many will make mistakes, abuse their power, or exploit people. But this isn't limited to the law enforcement occupation. And, as I continue to point out to many people, it is also not smart to generalize people based off a small percentage of others' mistakes. There are nearly 700,000 law enforcement in this country.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    You continue to go around my point. I have proven you hate the police for other reasons but you still wont admit it. Im also not sure the Chicago torture ring was worse than the murder of innocent people. Murder is typically viewed as being worse than torture... And calling Abu Ghraib a "sorority hazing" is an understatement.
    You don't HAVE a "point". You can't "prove" a nullity.

    The FOREIGN activities of the U.S. military are irrelevant to a discussion of misconduct and criminality by DOMESTIC law enforcement agencies. That having been said, if REAL misconduct has been committed against Iraqi or Afghan citizens by the U.S. military, they TOO have reason to be mistrustful of those capable of doing them harm and concealing evidence of same.

    If you'd do a bit of the "study" to which you are so averse, you'd KNOW that the Chicago PD has committed both murder AND organized, long term torture. You'd also know that the torture was of a character which makes that alleged at Abu Ghraib look like correction of ones grammar by Mister Rogers. But that would require you to "study" the REAL activities of the Chicago PD, such as sitting people on hot radiators.

    The facts are clearly NOT your friends in this discussion. That's why you avoid them with such vigor.

  8. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    You don't HAVE a "point". You can't "prove" a nullity.

    The FOREIGN activities of the U.S. military are irrelevant to a discussion of misconduct and criminality by DOMESTIC law enforcement agencies. That having been said, if REAL misconduct has been committed against Iraqi or Afghan citizens by the U.S. military, they TOO have reason to be mistrustful of those capable of doing them harm and concealing evidence of same.

    If you'd do a bit of the "study" to which you are so averse, you'd KNOW that the Chicago PD has committed both murder AND organized, long term torture. You'd also know that the torture was of a character which makes that alleged at Abu Ghraib look like correction of ones grammar by Mister Rogers. But that would require you to "study" the REAL activities of the Chicago PD, such as sitting people on hot radiators.

    The facts are clearly NOT your friends in this discussion. That's why you avoid them with such vigor.
    The foreign activities of the US military are not irrelevant. You hate police because a couple of them in Chicago did bad things. So you need to also hate the US military for doing worse things. Or you can finally admit you hate police for some other reason. Maybe you didnt get hired, maybe they arrested you, maybe you even spent some time in prison. If you were really that concerned with what a couple police officers did, you should also be concerned about what some of the US military did as well.

    The facts are not your friends which is why you are avoiding them.

    Nice try but you cant justify murder of innocent civilians when it happens somewhere else, and only condemn it when it happens here. You cannot say its bad for Chicago police to "murder" people, and say its okay or "irrelevant" when the US military to murdered people.

    You are arguing that all police are bad because a few of them have done bad things. But you dont seem concerned about what the bad things are because you only speak out against these bad things when certain people do them, aka police. If you were really that concerned about innocent people being murdered, you would speak out against it no matter who did it, rather than play it off as irrelevant because it didnt happen in your back yard.

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    The foreign activities of the US military are not irrelevant.
    They're UTTERLY irrelevant to a discussion of how to conduct oneself in a police stop in the United States.

    When I move to Iraq or Afghanistan and carry concealed there it will be relevant.

    Trying to change the subject doesn't help your "argument".

    Ineffectually trying to change the subject torpedoes it like the U.S.S. Indianapolis.

  10. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    They're UTTERLY irrelevant to a discussion of how to conduct oneself in a police stop in the United States.

    When I move to Iraq or Afghanistan and carry concealed there it will be relevant.

    Trying to change the subject doesn't help your "argument".

    Ineffectually trying to change the subject torpedoes it like the U.S.S. Indianapolis.
    Not changing the subject, just pointing out that your distaste for the police is not because of the bad things some of the have made the news for, it is because of something else. But you can have your opinion, Ill have mine, and we'll stop arguing. If you want the last word, go for it, but Im not going to engage in this thread anymore.

  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Not changing the subject, just pointing out that your distaste for the police is not because of the bad things some of the have made the news for, it is because of something else. But you can have your opinion, Ill have mine, and we'll stop arguing. If you want the last word, go for it, but Im not going to engage in this thread anymore.
    TRYING to change the subject, and by this, admitting that you've failed... badly.

    Americans IN AMERICA have good reason to be wary of the police and I've provided numerous documented examples of why.

    If U.S. troops have committed crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, where they have or had some measure of authority over those people, those people have reason to be wary of U.S. troops.

    The idea that x group are "the good guys", and therefore you have to blindly trust them and throw away whatever rights you have is utter nonsense. It's nonsense if you're in Richmond. It's nonsense if you're in Ramadi.

    But of course, I'm NOT in Baghdad. I'm in Ohio. I haven't the slightest reason to pretend that Daniel Harless never existed or that there aren't other cops like him... including the other cops currently contributing sick time to him as part of his "PTSD" scam. His videotaped SERIES of Frank Booth impressions are more than enough reason for me to avail myself of every protection against the power of the police I have.

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