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Thread: Washington LEO Encounter

  1. #21
    That's all I'm saying! Shocking folks into submission doesn't really seem they way to go.

    But as long as it makes YOU happy, hey, I'm happy your happy.

    KK

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  3. #22
    Wow, another thread about open carry versus concealed carry.

    Let me point out that those "40%" of Americans who favor gun control are largely basing their opinions off the common misconception that only cops and criminals have guns. When an ordinary citizen open carries, it proves them wrong. Open carry also fights the misconception that guns are private, dangerous things that need to be hidden, or banned for that matter.

    We could go on all day but its pointless. Carry how you like, but dont be one of those 40% who try to limit our options for carrying. I used to be against open carry, but I realized it was an unreasonable opinion. So now I am waiting until I get the money for a nice retention holster so I can open carry when I see fit and exercise my 2nd amendment right. Not taunt. Exercise.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds View Post
    The people that Keykutter states you are taunting are not the CCers here on the site. They are the 40% of Americans that favor gun control. You know, the democrats and liberals... remember them? The percentage may be different in Washington so please let us know the percentage there if you wish. Do you think that because you OC they suddenly do a 180 and go from gun hating to wanting to give you a hug and join the NRA? No, they still hate guns, despise you, and you are taunting them.

    Keykutter please correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe he is saying that he understand that you are taunting them and that it can blow back into our faces. They see someone CCing and know nothing. If anyting your OCing motivates the 40% to do more to try to bring about additional gun control.

    Edit
    California is an example of what I am saying. Gun owners OCed firearms legally because they had no other option. The anti-gun crowd responded by banning OC. They had no other choice, you do.
    So let me make sure I understand this. I should not wear my gun in the most effective manner to prevent a criminal attack against myself or my family because it might upset the 40% MINORITY enough that they will become politically active enough to pass more gun control laws?

    Well, lets see, Washington Cease Fire is "For the past 28 years, Washington CeaseFire has been the only statewide organization dedicated to reducing gun violence. The organization was formed in 1983 by citizens who had been directly affected by gun violence. From a small group meeting in private homes, it has grown to an organization with more than 5,000 members across the state. Washington CeaseFire is now one of the most respected gun safety organizations in the nation and continues to work to reduce gun violence in communities throughout Washington state."

    In 28 years the anti-gun group in Washington has grown to 5,000 members. Wow. Let's see, as of January 1, 2011 there were 276,612 active Washington Concealed Pistol Licenses. Hmmm.... 5,000 compared to 276,612...I wonder how many hunting licenses there are in addition to the CPLs?

    So, why is it again that we have to hide our guns from the anti-gunners? The problem is that we have come to believe their propaganda that they are the majority. They aren't. And with every year that goes by that the government promises to protect people from unemployment and crime, and fails miserably, the number of people who realize that they must take action to protect themselves grows. Yet a lot of the "pro-gun" crowd insists that we must live our lives in fear - not of the criminals - but of the anti-gun minority. So, instead of standing up for what is right, instead of standing up for our rights and exercising them, we begin to live our lives feeling that we must accept second class citizenship and hide our guns away with our permission slips in our pockets that we paid the government for, because if we do otherwise, surely the anti-gunners will strip even that away from us, right? It is exactly because of thinking like that that we lose our rights.

    In my day-to-day life in Washington state, less than 1% of the people I come into contact with have a visible or verbal negative reaction to the gun on my belt. 99% of the people that I and my family watch have no reaction at all, or they will show some visible or verbal sign of approval. Of the less than 1% that have negative reactions - 4 out of 5 of those are concealed carry only, "pro-gun" people who get their panties in a bunch and tell me I should cover up my gun like it is something evil.

    My daughter loves to say, "There is no need to hide your gun. You aren't a criminal. Criminals need to hide their guns."

    California is a country to it's own. Hopefully the open carry ban will bolster the 2nd Amendment lawsuits against that corrupt and tyrannical government. The last lawsuit (Peruda I think was his name) was lost because the Federal court ruled that unlicensed unloaded open carry was enough to fulfill the right to keep and bear arms. So, since that last option is now gone, hopefully the lawsuits can be re-addressed and won.

    The anti-gun minority attempted to ban guns in public parks and rec centers in Seattle. The result?
    Judge: Seattle gun ban is illegal - seattlepi.com

    "Judge: Seattle gun ban is illegal"
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #24
    Ya know. I didn't mean to get drawn into this OC/CC argument.

    The real point I was trying to make if you look back was that the OP said he wanted to keep his privacy.

    My argument was that you can't crave privacy and OC at the same time.

    I can't figure out how this became an OC/Cc argument again. I already stated I don't care about that argument.

    KK

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    817
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    For me, my freedoms come with a price. I value my 4th amendment rights to the extent that I will take the time to research the applicable laws for where I am going, especially if I am planning on carrying my gun. I value my right to privacy and my right to be secure in my identity, my property, and my personal affects. I won't waive those rights simply due to convenience. There are only 10 states that require notification.
    Amen brother, amen. The Fourth amendment as well as the Fifth (for that matter all the bill of rights) were ment to protect ALL of us from big government, not just the bad guys in a 'cops and robbers' tv show. There is nothing immoral or shady about exercising your Constutional rights, not just the second amendment but all of them. Innocent people have been treated badly or sent to jail for 'cooperating' with police. Cops love it when people get 'diarrea of the mouth'. The police are not God, though some (not all)act that way. If I am not required to notify or breaking the law it is none of the cops damn business if I am carrying, where I have been or where I am headed. YOUR RIGHTS, USE THEM OR LOSE THEM!

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Keykutter View Post
    That's all I'm saying! Shocking folks into submission doesn't really seem they way to go.

    But as long as it makes YOU happy, hey, I'm happy your happy.

    KK
    I'll bet you have never openly carried throughout the day doing your normal everyday business, have you?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I'll bet you have never openly carried throughout the day doing your normal everyday business, have you?
    That is not an option here in SC unless hunting or fishing. There are places I may if I could but there are other places I wouldn't dare. For that reason, I probably would only CC even if OC was an option. I work on the road and not in a shop. If I were in my shop, I just may OC. On my turf, my rules.

    Once again, I have no problem with someone OC'ing. This thread got skewed somewhere along the way and became an OC vs CC. I really have no dog in that fight.

    As I said, it was just the paradox of wanting privacy while OC'ing. I just don't see how you can expect to do both in this world. Yes, Rosa Parks was somewhat of a relevant analogy but just barely.

    I helped preserve your right to do what you want, for the most part, for 20 years of my life. I don't begrudge you that either.

    You keep trying to make this about OC'ing and I keep trying to fall into that trap.

    When Rosa Parks did what she did, her privacy went to hell whether she wanted it to or not.

    Is that a better analogy of what my point is?

    KK

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    So let me make sure I understand this. I should not wear my gun in the most effective manner to prevent a criminal attack against myself or my family because it might upset the 40% MINORITY enough that they will become politically active enough to pass more gun control laws?
    Lets see you justify your statement that OCing as the "most effective manner to prevent a criminal attack" with real proof. I love the stories you and others throw up. "I went somewhere and some minorities (insert race here) didn't do something". "But I KNOW they would have if I wasn't OCing". I love it. It's drivel.

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    In 28 years the anti-gun group in Washington has grown to 5,000 members. Wow. Let's see, as of January 1, 2011 there were 276,612 active Washington Concealed Pistol Licenses. Hmmm.... 5,000 compared to 276,612...I wonder how many hunting licenses there are in addition to the CPLs?
    How many of these would have members in Washington?

    NRA-ILA :: National Organizations With Anti-Gun Policies
    All have officially endorsed anti-gun positions.

    AARP
    AFL-CIO
    Ambulatory Pediatric Association
    American Academy of Pediatrics
    American Civil Liberties Union
    American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
    American Medical Women`s Association
    American Medical Student Association
    American Medical Association
    American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
    American Trauma Society
    American Federation of Teachers
    American Association of School Administrators
    American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities
    American Medical Association
    American Bar Association
    American Counseling Association
    American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
    American Academy of Pediatrics
    American Association for World Health
    American Ethical Union
    American Nurses Association
    American Association of Neurological Surgeons
    American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences
    American Firearms Association
    American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
    American Jewish Committee
    American Trauma Society
    American Psychological Association
    American Jewish Congress
    American Public Health Association
    Americans for Democratic Action
    Anti-Defamation League
    Black Mental Health Alliance
    B`nai B`rith
    Central Conference of American Rabbis
    Children`s Defense Fund
    Church of the Brethren
    Coalition for Peace Action
    Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
    College Democrats of America
    Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace
    Common Cause
    Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
    Congress of Neurological Surgeons
    Consumer Federation of America
    Council of the Great City Schools
    Council of Chief State School Officers
    Dehere Foundation
    Disarm Educational Fund
    Environmental Action Foundation
    Episcopal Church-Washington Office
    Florence and John Shumann Foundation
    Friends Committee on National Legislation
    General Federation of Women`s Clubs
    George Gund Fun
    Gray Panthers
    H.M. Strong Foundation
    Hadassah
    Harris Foundation
    Hechinger Foundation
    Interfaith Neighbors
    Int`l Ladies` Garment Workers` Union
    Int`l Association of Educators for World Peace
    Jewish Labor Committee
    Joyce Foundation
    Lauder Foundation
    Lawrence Foundation
    League of Women Voters of the United States*
    Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
    Manhattan Project II
    Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
    National Safe Kids Campaign
    National Association of Police Organizations
    National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
    National Black Nurses` Association
    National Association of Chain Drug Stores
    National Network for Youth
    National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations
    National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
    National Association of School Psychologists
    National Association of Counties*
    National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
    National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers
    National Education Association
    National Association of Elementary School Principals*
    National Association of Public Hospitals
    National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
    National Association of Secondary School Principals
    National Association of Social Workers
    National Association of Children`s Hospitals and Related Institutions
    National Association of School Psychologists
    National Council of La Raza
    National Center to Rehabilitate Violent Youth
    National Commission for Economic Conversion & Disarmament
    National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA
    National Council of Negro Women
    National Association of Community Health Centers
    National People`s Action
    National Education Association*
    National League of Cities
    National Council on Family Relations
    National Council of Jewish Women
    National Organization for Women
    National Political Congress of Black Women
    National Parks and Conservation Association
    National Peace Foundation
    National Urban League, Inc.
    National Parent, Teachers Association*
    National Urban Coalition
    National SAFE KIDS Campaign
    National Organization on Disability
    National Spinal Cord Injury Association
    NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
    Ortenberg Foundation
    Peace Action
    People for the American Way
    Physicians for Social Responsibility
    Police Foundation
    Project on Demilitarization and Democracy
    Public Citizen
    SaferWorld
    Society of Critical Care Medicine
    Southern Christian Leadership Conference
    The Council of the Great City Schools
    The Synergetic Society
    20/20 Vision
    U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
    Union of American Hebrew Congregations
    Unitarian Universalist Association
    United States Catholic Conference
    United Methodist Church, General Board & Church Society
    United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society*
    United States Conference of Mayors
    War and Peace Foundation
    Women Strike for Peace
    Women`s National Democratic Club
    Women`s Action for New Directions (WAND)
    Women`s Int`l League for Peace and Freedom
    World Spiritual Assembly, Inc.
    YWCA of the U.S.A.


    You love to call people out but provide little proof yourself.

    And you still didn't have an answer for what happened in California.

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds View Post
    The people that Keykutter states you are taunting are not the CCers here on the site. They are the 40% of Americans that favor gun control. You know, the democrats and liberals... remember them? No, they still hate guns, despise you, and you are taunting them.
    If anyting your OCing motivates the 40% to do more to try to bring about additional gun control.
    I dont understand where you got this information. Where are your sources to back up your claim that people who see an open carrier are motivated to bring about additional gun control? Are you suggesting that after people see guns, they say to themselves "Ah yes, that reminds me. I should start collecting signatures to ban guns"?
    Also, many democrats actually like guns. If all democrats hated guns, that "40%" who favor gun control would actually be much higher.

    In regards to the "taunting", your verb does not apply to an open carrier, even with the most loosely abstracted definition of taunting. Having a gun in a holster while grocery shopping does not express criticism or disapproval to somebody in an insulting or mocking manner.

    If we follow your logic, then people walking down the street wearing crocs are taunting us non-croc owners. People driving motorcycles would be taunting us who drive cars, etc.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno NV
    Posts
    174
    I make it a practice to let the cop know I have a weapon first thing. The way I see it, cops have to operate with an abundance of caution. Their job is dangerous and sometimes fatal. Declaring my gun on the onset of our encounter has some benefit for both of us. For the cop, he gets to maintain control and decide how he wants to proceed. (So far, once I declared my weapon, the two cops I've been stopped by only asked where it was.) It also benefits me because cops tend to get a bit testy when they discover a gun they didn't know about. Right or wrong, I don't have anything to fear from a LEO and I don't have any reservations about letting them know I'm carrying. Here in Reno, I've yet to meet a cop that had a problem with a law abiding citizen carrying a gun. Though it hasn't worked so far, I'm still holding out that being a good guy with a gun will score me some points when the cop's deciding whether to give me a ticket or a warning.

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