Washington LEO Encounter
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Thread: Washington LEO Encounter

  1. #1

    Washington LEO Encounter

    A while ago I was driving on a county road. When the speed limit changed from 50 to 40, I forgot to reset my cruise control and found myself going 12 mph over the speed limit when I saw the sheriff's car. I pulled over and retrieved my driver's license and the folder with insurance and registration and rolled down my driver's side window.

    As the deputy approached, I had my hand with my driver's license in it resting just outside the window and my other hand on the steering wheel. After I handed him my driver's license, I gave him the insurance card and registration from the folder on my lap. He said, "Thanks for stopping without having to chase you down, I'll run these and if it comes back good you'll be on your way."

    He was gone a couple minutes, came back, handed me my cards back and said, "All good, slow down, have a nice day."

    Amazing how he was not in fear for his life (or at least didn't show it) because I never mentioned my CPL, or the gun in a holster on my belt.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #2
    Yeah, I often debated the exact same thing, in many states you are required to tell them, MN is not one of those states. But I did have a run in the other day and mentioned it. No big deal.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    33
    here in florida, when they run your dl, the info also comes up that you are a ccw holder. i just give it to them as a courtesy, have had both positive & semi negative response's but, dont sweat it. as i am above board always. also give them my medical card for my pacemaker as a precaution against escalation. cant be tasered, it would kill me.

  5. #4
    For the most part, Washington State LEO are decent...especially the Sheriff. The ones that seem to get their panties in a knot more frequently are city.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Saxon View Post
    i just give it to them as a courtesy,
    Why do you feel it is courteous to tell LEO about objects that are in your lawful possession? Do you tell them about your cell phone, or your wrist watch? Why is your lawfully possessed gun different?

    There is this theory that it puts an officer "at ease" when they are presented with a gun permit because it, in theory, lets the cop know they are dealing with a "good guy." But, let's analyze this for a bit. First, when you present your permit to the cop, they have no idea if it is real or not. Just like they have no idea if your driver's license is valid, suspended or revoked, until they call it in on the radio. So, first - should a cop really feel "at ease" because you give them a piece of paper that is somehow supposed to declare that you are a "good guy?"

    So, even if you don't hand them your permit - is the cop really going to be that afraid of you between the time they make initial contact with you and the time they return to their car and call your info in on the radio? What are we talking about.... 5 minutes, max? And, if the dispatcher tells them about your permit, doesn't that indicate to them that you are a "good guy" just as much as if you had given them the permit?

    I just really can't figure out this need to tell a specific person about my gun and my CPL simply because they are wearing a uniform and a badge. It just doesn't make sense to me. First, why is a lawfully gun any different than a lawfully carried cell phone or wrist watch? Why not tell the cop about those too? Second, why is the cop any different than a garbage collector, lumber worker, fisherman or farmer? Would you tell your garbage man, the guy at home depot cutting wood, or a fisherman or a farmer about your permit and gun? Why is the cop different? The workers that I mentioned have a higher death rate on the job than cops do....don't they deserve the "courtesy" of knowing about your permit and gun too? They just want to go home safe at night as much as a cop does, and if you telling a cop about your permit helps them go home safe at night, wouldn't telling a garbage man help them too? Think about it, who would rather really, really live without. The cops, or the garbage man who takes away your trash every week, the lumber worker who provided the wood to build your house, and the farmers and fishermen who work to feed your family? Why don't they deserve as much courtesy as cops?

    I am really, really trying to understand this fascination with telling cops about permits and guns, when it is not required by law to do so.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I am really, really trying to understand this fascination with telling cops about permits and guns, when it is not required by law to do so.
    After thinking the subject over a lot, I tend to agree with you on this. I do not plan on notifying unless the LEO asks me if I have a weapon.
    However, to help you understand the reasoning behind voluntarily notifying, I believe the logic goes something like this: Notifying isn't necessarily a sign of respect for the LEO and the dangers of the profession. I think voluntarily notifying revolves around the fact that in many circumstances, the LEO can find out you have a gun and therefore the gun owner feels obligated to be up front about it before the LEO finds out on his own and may be startled.
    The way I see it, a traffic stop is simple as long as you never have to get out of the car. Therefore, notifying during a simple traffic stop may turn it into a complicated one. However, if the LEO wants you out of the car, thats usually a sign that its a whole lot more complicated and he might be planning on searching you or the car, and/or detaining you. In that case, notifying works in your favor, rather than waiting until you are being patted down or put in cuffs to be detained.

    Again, unless I'm asked if I have a weapon, or if I am asked to get out of the car, I dont plan on notifying. However, it is also a stupid idea to assume things about people, whether it is assuming the person will work in your favor or assuming the will work against you. So a lot of the decision to notify or not really depends on the situation, circumstances, and LEO attitude. And not all situations are the same so I cant say I will treat them all the same, but until then, I do not plan on informing voluntarily.

  8. #7
    If you get in the habit of notifying you will not break the law by accident in states that require notification. I live in NC by the Va border both states require notification. IMO its easier to notify in states that dont require than to forget to notify in states that do. I also hand them my retired military ID
    Randy

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    After thinking the subject over a lot, I tend to agree with you on this. I do not plan on notifying unless the LEO asks me if I have a weapon.
    Even if you had not come to the same conclusion, I am glad that you took the time to honestly evaluate what was posted, rather than just dismissing it automatically as "Constitutional trolling" drivel due to who the poster was.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    However, to help you understand the reasoning behind voluntarily notifying, I believe the logic goes something like this: Notifying isn't necessarily a sign of respect for the LEO and the dangers of the profession. I think voluntarily notifying revolves around the fact that in many circumstances, the LEO can find out you have a gun and therefore the gun owner feels obligated to be up front about it before the LEO finds out on his own and may be startled.
    I think in most traffic stop situations, the LEO can find out if you have a PERMIT. The only way they are going to find out you possess a firearm is if they see it or search for it or you tell them. How many people in this country have carry permits that don't carry, at least part of the time? There is also this theory that if you don't tell the officer about your permit, and they find out later on the radio, that somehow that is worthy of suspicion. If the officer becomes suspicious in those circumstances, that certainly is an issue the officer has. Why would the officer have reason to be suspicious because I did not tell him about something that was completely legal for me to possess? If my cell phone rang during the traffic stop, would there be reason for the officer to become suspicious because I did not tell him I possessed a cell phone at the beginning of the encounter? If I were a licensed pilot, and the officer found out about my pilot's license that I did not tell them about, would that be worthy of suspicion if they stopped me while driving a car? Why is a handgun permit any different?

    Once the officer discovers the subject has a permit, via the radio, then why is there any increased reason for that officer to ask about a gun upon their return? If they did not ask before, then why would they have increased "need" to ask after they find out that any gun possessed is 99% likely to be legal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    The way I see it, a traffic stop is simple as long as you never have to get out of the car. Therefore, notifying during a simple traffic stop may turn it into a complicated one. However, if the LEO wants you out of the car, thats usually a sign that its a whole lot more complicated and he might be planning on searching you or the car, and/or detaining you. In that case, notifying works in your favor, rather than waiting until you are being patted down or put in cuffs to be detained.
    I agree. Although I have been asked to exit the vehicle at the very end of a traffic stop. I had two kids and my wife with me, I was open carrying my gun as usually on my right side on my belt, officer never saw it during the stop. When he asked me to exit, he immediately turned his back on me and started walking back to between our vehicles. So, heck, I just got out and followed him. When we met between our vehicles, he said he didn't want to lecture me in front of my family, but wanted me to slow down and let me go with a warning. That was all. Never said a word about the gun on my belt. If I had been given the chance to tell him about my gun before getting out of the car, I would have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Again, unless I'm asked if I have a weapon, or if I am asked to get out of the car, I dont plan on notifying. However, it is also a stupid idea to assume things about people, whether it is assuming the person will work in your favor or assuming the will work against you. So a lot of the decision to notify or not really depends on the situation, circumstances, and LEO attitude. And not all situations are the same so I cant say I will treat them all the same, but until then, I do not plan on informing voluntarily.
    The bold part is exactly why I choose to not notify, if not required by law. I don't know how they will react when they find out I have a gun. The hassle and consequences if they choose to react badly to knowing I have gun far outweigh the chance that telling them about my gun will score points in my favor, given the 90% odds they aren't going to see my gun anyway. If my respectful behavior of stopping in a safe place, having my driver's license ready, a friendly greeting, using "sir", hands in plain view, and making his job as easy as possible without waiving my rights isn't enough to score points with the officer, then I doubt there is any benefit to be gained by passing him another piece of paper.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by vaskeet View Post
    If you get in the habit of notifying you will not break the law by accident in states that require notification. I live in NC by the Va border both states require notification. IMO its easier to notify in states that dont require than to forget to notify in states that do. I also hand them my retired military ID.
    Randy
    For me, my freedoms come with a price. I value my 4th amendment rights to the extent that I will take the time to research the applicable laws for where I am going, especially if I am planning on carrying my gun. I value my right to privacy and my right to be secure in my identity, my property, and my personal affects. I won't waive those rights simply due to convenience. There are only 10 states that require notification.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. I respectfully disagree. Your logic about a cell phone and wrist watch lacks merit. I think in informing the LEO you are being respectful and honest. To my knowledge the has never been a LEO killed by cell phone or wrist watch, therefor I wouldn't share that with them. I have quite a few LEO acquaintances and have run this question by them. Their opinion is they want to know.

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