Virginia State Police Encounter - positive! - Page 3
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Thread: Virginia State Police Encounter - positive!

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Keykutter View Post
    I'm kinda wondering what side you're on when I just read a post by you that said .....and I quote..

    ."I have to say that, after noting a couple of the Instructor "badges" in this thread, I will know just where to make a referal if I ever know anyone who needs to take "Bend Over 101"..."

    This was in the thread where some of the instructors were promoting being reasonable to LEO's. Was I misunderstanding you?

    KK
    There is a rather large difference (at least from the POV of this retired LEO) between complying with an officer who is exceeding his/her authority by making a completely unjustified stop/search or demanding documentation when the law does not require it to be furnished and volunteering information to an officer in order to prevent a misunderstanding later that could cause harm to either the citizen or the officer.

    I also do not remember criticizing others for not choosing to to notify the officer.

    I will, though, continue to criticize anyone in a perceived position of authority (such as an instructor of a required CC class) who advises to "go along" with violations of one's rights.

    Simple enough for you?

  2.   
  3. #22
    Well if you mean I tell students the best way to walk away unscathed is to comply, within reason, to a request by an LEO to see my cred's, yeah you're right.

    If I get stopped here in SC, it's law, but if I'm travelling out of state, I will still offer up my permit and notification. I choose to think, with 57 years of experience, that butthole LEO's are in the minority.

    Coming across with an attitude in any situation is only going to escalate the bad feelings. If you were REALLY hurt in any process, there are legal ways to deal with that. If I am walking away with no fear of future harrassment, I'll keep on smiling and not look back.

    I am under the impression that if I make an LEO's day a bit less confrontational, his attitude will be a little more tempered in the long run.

    I can't imagine having to deal with a bunch of butthole people every day without having gained some sort of a defensive attitude. It's human nature. They may be trained how to overcome these things but in the end they are still human and subject to default.

    It's hard not to get an attitude just reading some of these posts here but fortunately there is as much humor as idiocy. I come here to relax and be entertained and really to get a feeling as to what folks who carry really feel.

    I have to tell you that from living life out here in the streets and then reading posts here on this forum, I'm really glad that all the bravado shown here comes mainly from the fingertips. That, and what I have come to realize is that most of the idiocy comes from really young posters who get all their info on life from TV and the internet.

    So I stay here and go to bed grinning at what is said here but also being a little afraid that some of these kids might try to bring what they've learned on the net and TV into real life.

    If you knew me, you would soon realize that I don't take anybody's crap but if I can go on my merry way by just being polite in what may be an LEO's bad day for some other reason, well that's the path I'm going to take.

    And Navy, I don't want to hear that they are trained LEO's and should keep an even keel. I don't care how I was trained, if someone like you tried to make a monkey out of me in front of everybody, you just may need a lawyer by the end of the day. Good thing I'm not an LEO, huh? :):):)

    Pax, I didn't call you out, just trying to reconcile my 'perceived' 180 deg. rotation or your course from this post to the last. No disrespect intended!

    KK

    PS...The only authority, perceived or realized, that an instructor has is the control of his instructional area. Other that that, he can sign course completion papers and forward notes on particular problem students if he wishes. The snide remark about the badge was a little over the top.

  4. First, I have never advocated being rude or disrespectful to a police officer. "Am I free to leave?" and if the answer is yes, walk away, is in no way being rude or disrespectful. "No, officer, I do not consent to a search" is in no way being rude or disrespectful. "No, officer, I won't tell you who I am or where I am going" is in no way being rude or disrespectful. Again, if Joe Stranger not in uniform walked up to you on the street and stopped you and started asking you the same questions, I doubt very seriously anybody would feel any obligation to stay and chat with them about what your name is, if you have a criminal record or not, where you were going and what your intentions were.

    Second, I find it odd that some people will carry a gun all day long with them to protect themselves from criminal acts and yet think it is so unreasonable to take the first step to protect themselves from a potential criminal act by a person wearing a badge and uniform by simply asking, "am I free to go" and leaving. If there is no reason for the officer to suspect you of committing a crime, and he answers NO, you are not free to leave, everything after that is a criminal act.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Keykutter View Post
    Pax, I didn't call you out, just trying to reconcile my 'perceived' 180 deg. rotation or your course from this post to the last. No disrespect intended!

    KK

    PS...The only authority, perceived or realized, that an instructor has is the control of his instructional area. Other that that, he can sign course completion papers and forward notes on particular problem students if he wishes. The snide remark about the badge was a little over the top.
    Well...it is probable that my perspective is different (not better or worse) than most others. I spent a lot of my years as a supervisor/administrator and, in my experience, officers who exceed their authority do so either out of ignorance or because they are a part of that minority that should not have the authority that comes with the job...but managed to get by the psych testing. Either way, the situation is not going to be corrected (which is what I would hope we would all want) by a populace that "goes along" with even small violations of their rights...that only reinforces the behavior. I would hope that every citizen whose rights are violated would, at the very least, make sure the officer's supervisor is made aware of the fact.

    I would disagree that the only authority an instructor is perceived as having by students is the completion certification. Many, if not most, students are going to perceive the instructor as knowledgeable with regard to all things relating to carry and the instructor's statements on what one should do will carry significant weight.

    I will also say that it was not your attitude as much as BC1's that prompted my "Bend Over 101" comment...since he seems to feel that any citizen objecting to having his or her rights violated is just an idiot and a troublemaker...much like the folks who opine that paople who carry openly are doing so in order to provoke a reaction from those with whom they come into contact. I always have the feeling that people tend to ascribe their own motivational concerns to others when they are faced with motivations they do not understand.

    If you really try to figure out what "side" I am on...good luck. I really don't have a "side" and tend to look at each individual question and statement as seperate...and my answer is not going to have any bearing on who makes the statement or asks the question. I frequently agree with Navy when it comes to matters of a person's choice with regard to manner of carry (though I do not believe any particular method of carry is protected by the 2nd amendment...just the right to carry), but believe his demonstrated attitude whenever a LEO is mentioned to belie his signature.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    but believe his demonstrated attitude whenever a LEO is mentioned to belie his signature.
    How about an example of the attitude I demonstrate towards LEO? I was driving on a county road with a speed limit of 50. I had my cruise control set at 52. I drive this road twice a day. At the beginning of a curve, the speed limit drops to 40. In the middle of the curve is a grocery/gas station. I forgot to change my cruise control and there at the gas station was the sheriff running radar as he frequently does.

    Upon seeing the sheriff, I knew I was busted, so I turned on my hazard lights, took the road to the right across the main road from the gas station because the main road is quite busy, and stopped on the side of the side road and waited, retrieving my driver's license, insurance and registration. And watched in my mirror for the sheriff. I was in a convertible with the top down. He came to the side of the car, and I had all my papers in hand, the other hand on the steering wheel.

    We exchanged pleasantries and I said, I completely forgot to change my cruise control (no mention of the gun on my belt or my CPL, however). He said, I'll check these and you'll be on your way. He came back and thanked me for stopping and not making him chase me down, thanked me for my military service and said, "but you still have to slow down!" I thanked him, wished him a good day, and that was that.

    I would also say hi to my garbage man and wish him a good day if I saw him. I don't understand why it is thought that I am a cop hater simply because I advocate refusing to roll over if a cop wants to check me out for no other reason than I am carrying a legal object on my belt in a legal manner. Or, is it because I point out that there are nine other professions that are more dangerous, and more likely to be killed on the job than being a police officer?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #26
    Join Date
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    St. Louis County, MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
    I hate it when my friends fight :(
    It is OK localgirl...they are not fighting...they are just arguing. They are pretty much like friends who cannot talk about something without getting into their wordy fracas. 'Pretty sure they will sit down together at a round table and have a drink or two to settle their differences.
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Tucker's Mom View Post
    It is OK localgirl...they are not fighting...they are just arguing. They are pretty much like friends who cannot talk about something without getting into their wordy fracas. 'Pretty sure they will sit down together at a round table and have a drink or two to settle their differences.
    We can't even agree on sitting at a round table and having a drink or two! :-)
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #28
    I think it should be a square table. ;)

    KK

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    St. Louis County, MO
    Posts
    3,445
    Square, round, oval, who cares ?? -- You WILL get along well together. You embodied what we all believe in -- the 2nd. Good encounter, bad encounter you all have personal stories to tell. It is HOW you tell it that makes the differences and raises some eyebrows.

    In the meantime, I can only giggle while reading your responses...pretty much saying: HE HIT ME FIRST!!!
    LOL
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

  11. #30
    Well he did! ;)

    KK

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