leo firsked me today! - Page 10
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Thread: leo firsked me today!

  1. #91
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    The whole problem with people letting small violation go is that with every small violation the parties tend to step it up a notch the next time. That is what happened that lead to the American Revolution. Acts upon Acts that finally got too big to ignore. A bully that gets away with something will tend to step it up the next time.

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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1:248075
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkbeater View Post
    You clearly remember whatever is convenient to remember. You said, "Are we such little sociopathic children that we have to file complaints and charge people with violating our right?". Our founding fathers were all about fighting/dying for rights. I came up with this easy comparison so that your tiny brain could maybe understand that they would not sit back and allow our rights to be violated without punishing the violator. Our founders were not sociopathic children. If you can't see that, then that's your problem.

    As far as your attorney friend, he/she doesn't know what they're talking about either. Your opinion is based on misinformation or something.

    Don't worry! I won't defend you at Denny's. I don't go to Denny's because it sucks. I'll be saving everyone else at IHOP.
    I just don't see it as a violation of his rights worth pursuing. Now what happened to my wife was a real violatin of her rights. LE can't go around treating crippled people as drunks just because they don't walk well. LE can't show reasonable cause for a search, arrest or blood draw just because a crippled person couldn't walk a straight line without crutches. We didn't chase the LE agency down and sue them. Why? He was a young officer and was very polite. He merely crossed the line from lack of understanding/experience. Now had he arrested her there would have been a massive lawsuit and charges of violating her rights. I would never have stopped in my pursuit for justice, and trust me, I can whip up a costly ass whipping in a civil action. But there was no harm done. All I'm saying is that we let the little stuff go by. Can't fight everyone. There's enough people in the world that need an ass whipping without looking to resolve every detail of every act or staement. As I said, there's no money in it and most people let it go because they need to get about important things that occupy life. It doesn't mean anyone is less of a patriot or American. Getting back to the OP, the LEO was a wanker, no doubt.

    Also beater, why the insults? Little brain? That's very funny to me considering the extent of my education. Calling me names shows an inability to control one's emotions; clearly not an ingredient for success. Calm down. BTW, This is a nationally known NYC attorney and contributor to FOX News and CNNHN. After 35 years as best friends I trust his knowledge over all others.

    Time to let this thread go. We agree to disagree.
    Your and the OP's decisions to not hold government accountable are yours to make, but you and others like you will be very sad when you can't defend them anymore. If you can't stand up and fight for your rights now, do you really think that you will be able later? You've also decided that money is more important than your God-given rights. Does that make you less of an American? Actually, it does. Do I doubt your patriotism? Yes, I do.

    What do I care about your education? I too, have been educated. That does not make one intelligent. I believe that you are highly educated, but that clearly has not helped you acknowledge the difference between right and wrong. Just look at our current administration.

    This thread hasn't brought out my mean side yet and I have been very calm.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    The whole problem with people letting small violation go is that with every small violation the parties tend to step it up a notch the next time. That is what happened that lead to the American Revolution. Acts upon Acts that finally got too big to ignore. A bully that gets away with something will tend to step it up the next time.
    No bully ever stopped being a bully because he got what he wanted by being a bully.

  5. Hi LCDR. If I could go back and do it over of couse I could leave my tool pouch in the car I wear it at meets so I have tools to fix the fencing sabres when the grip comes loose. But as far as if I could take back the words I said i would it made it worse. As far as facing the officer and getting in a rights fight no I would go to court to do that. I don't fight cops on the street in court is where I would do that.
    I think this is just a hurt feelings and insult thing. a judge would say Guys bring me a case where it has some thing that matters. Like if my wife or child was there and was scared or yelled at then i swear the cop would been reported and I would have got my lawer and filled a complaint. the police have a hard job and I give a little and scream alittle when they step on my toes but when they stomp on my foot I do something.

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
    the police have a hard job and I give a little and scream alittle when they step on my toes but when they stomp on my foot I do something.
    Apparently it's TOO hard for some cops.

    I have a hard job too, and if I treated the customer that way, I'd be out on the street.

    When it gets to the point where your rights are violated, you're publicly humiliated, AND you're afraid to complain, the police have become more trouble than they're worth.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
    Hi LCDR. If I could go back and do it over of couse I could leave my tool pouch in the car I wear it at meets so I have tools to fix the fencing sabres when the grip comes loose.
    Why should that even be a consideration? Hide a tool pouch in your car to avoid police attention because it causes a buldge under your jacket? I don't mean to sound critical of you personally... it's a comment on how the general public has become indoctrinated in America to basically worship police officers. In regards to authority, there is a very thin line between respect and fear. It seems like, in modern America, most of the public lives on the fear side of the line now, unless you are a criminal. It's sad when we have come to the point where 90% of the population that fears police officers are the law abiding citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
    As far as facing the officer and getting in a rights fight no I would go to court to do that. I don't fight cops on the street in court is where I would do that.
    There is a small problem with that. IF you are going to take it to court, the first question that will need to be answered is did the officer detain you. If you voluntarily consent to the encounter with the police officer there can be no unlawful detainment. That is why it is vitally important to make it clear, at the very beginning of the encounter that you do not give consent to the encounter. "Officer, am I free to leave?" "No." That establishes detainment. If you don't establish right up front that you were being detained, now the burden in court is on you to prove you were actually detained. If you do establish detainment right from the start, the burden of proof shifts to the police officer to prove there was lawful grounds for the detainment. Many people wil say, "Well, the cop will just lie, so why make it hard?" Because if you don't ask the question, then you have no ability to truthfully say that you did ask in court. Isn't it better there be a disagreement in court whether or not you asked, rather than complete agreement that you did not ask?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
    I think this is just a hurt feelings and insult thing. a judge would say Guys bring me a case where it has some thing that matters. Like if my wife or child was there and was scared or yelled at then i swear the cop would been reported and I would have got my lawer and filled a complaint.
    The 4th Amendment is the core of the Bill of Rights. Without the 4th Amendment, the rest of the bill of rights mean absolutely nothing. Did you read the court case I linked to: St. John v. Alamogordo? There was nothing in that case other than an unlawful detainment, extremely similar to yours. No damages, no women or children involved, no arrest. Only an unlawful detainment. The Federal District Court judge felt it was important enough to hear the case, and to find the officers liable for 4th Amendment rights violation. The city, after a Federal District Court ruled that they were liable paid $21,000 to keep from allowing a jury to decide just how liable they actually were.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
    the police have a hard job and I give a little and scream alittle when they step on my toes but when they stomp on my foot I do something.
    FIrst, there are nine more professions that are more dangerous than being a police officer. Your garbage man has a more dangerous job and is more likely to die on the job than a police officer is. Your local farmers have a more dangerous job and more likely to die on the job than a police officer is. Let me ask you this, if you had to choose between firing all of the garbage collectors, all of the farmers, or all of the police officers, which group do you think would have least affect on your day to day life if they weren't there?

    Second, if you don't want to go to court because an officer unlawfully detains you for 10 minutes and "steps on your toes", that's fine. I completely understand that. Thousands of $$$ and hours and hours of time to roll the dice and hope a court finds in your favor is a pretty big deal. I completely get that. I have been unlawfully detained and unlawfully evicted from a restaurant by a police officer and didn't take it to court. But, really... do we have to take off our shoes and socks and offer our toes to the police officer for the sake of convenience? Do we have to condone their behavior by making excuses for them? Do we really have to immediately waive our 4th Amendment rights just because the stranger who is walking up to us in a convenience store and asking questions is wearing a uniform and a badge?

    I have no problem, whitetiger, with your actions during your first police encounter. I, personally, was unhappy with the way I handled my first encounter. What I find to be very sad and disturbing is basically blaming yourself for the officer's actions such as: Well, it's understand he would want to detain me and frisk me and check me out because I did have buldge showing under my coat. Making excuses for the officer such as: Officers have a hard job to do an we need to cut them some slack once in a while. Belittling the importance of the 4th Amendment: Well, he might have violated my rights, and only just a little, and only for just a short time, and he was polite about it. And feeling that we must alter our LAWFUL behavior because we now fear the police: Well, maybe I should leave the tool pouch in the car, maybe I should drive around that area now, rather than through it.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    What I find to be very sad and disturbing is basically blaming yourself for the officer's actions such as: Well, it's understand he would want to detain me and frisk me and check me out because I did have buldge showing under my coat. Making excuses for the officer such as: Officers have a hard job to do an we need to cut them some slack once in a while. Belittling the importance of the 4th Amendment: Well, he might have violated my rights, and only just a little, and only for just a short time, and he was polite about it. And feeling that we must alter our LAWFUL behavior because we now fear the police: Well, maybe I should leave the tool pouch in the car, maybe I should drive around that area now, rather than through it.
    That's how you end up with armed robbery rings operating INSIDE of the Philadelphia and Chicago Police Departments. When police learn that they can intimidate victims of abuse into silence, the abuse ALWAYS escalates. The barmaid who was beaten on video was threatened by the cop who beat her, through his friends. Not surprisingly, there were plenty of defenders of the cop telling her to "Just let it go."

    It's like prosecuting a rapist. Who believes that was his first rape... or that if he gets away with it, it'll be his last?

  9. #98
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    @NavyLCDR are you in JAG? Just currious, you seam to jump in on every thing from a leagel point view. Not to mention if your 100 miles from any of the US boarders all your rights are null and void.

  10. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyk00diver View Post
    @NavyLCDR are you in JAG? Just currious, you seam to jump in on every thing from a leagel point view. Not to mention if your 100 miles from any of the US boarders all your rights are null and void.
    I think he's just a wannabe. If he was a real lawyer he would be sending us an invoice! :):)

    KK

  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keykutter View Post
    I think he's just a wannabe. If he was a real lawyer he would be sending us an invoice! :):)

    KK
    You mean you haven't gotten your bill!!
    Maybejim

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    What you say isn't as important as what the other person hears

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