Man arrested for having '2 extra bullets' in his sidearm's magazine. - Page 12
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Thread: Man arrested for having '2 extra bullets' in his sidearm's magazine.

  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    As predicted, you're back without citing anything.
    .
    PPA handles NYS and NYC pistol permits for clients. I have a NYC permit myself. It is a carry permit, not a premise or target permit. And for all the folks who have never walked the streets of Manhattan shoulder to shoulder, carrying a gun is about the most ridiculous thing you think you can do. A primary rule in self-defense is that you may not take the shot, even if your life is in danger, unless you have a clear shot/clear background. That direction DOES NOT EXIST in Manhattan. Not on any day at any time. And numerous police shootings end in the shooting of innocent people purely by virtue of the extreme population density. Understand? The majority of residents don't want 8 million people packing a heater in a 3X6 mile island. If you want that $200K per year job, that's the price you pay.
    .
    Westchester county reserves the right to restrict some permits as does Rockland and Nassau. Any state within the U.S. Second Circuit Court can restrict a permit. That's quite a few states. They get away with this because the Second District FEDERAL Court; that's federal court, not state court, ruled that any person in America can be denied the right to carry a gun as the Heller decision gave lead-way for "common sense" gun control. That means if anyone in any state is denied the CCW permit, fed case law supports it. So, now you get a few liberal judges who impose their personal and political view in the form of some restricted form of carry. They use that FEDERAL decision to their advantage. But that doesn't mean the licensee must leave it home. They still possess a CCW permit and NYS PL 265.20(3) exempts them from criminal charges. They may not be arrested. Please cite any case law where someone was arrested for a violation of Article 265 (Firearms & Dangerous Weapons) for carrying a gun outside of the restrictions of his permit.
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    Regarding the "permission slip" you claim we need to buy a gun, it's covered in NYS PL 400.00. It is merely an amendment. It's an admin transaction that takes about three days. The amendment is not denied without the same cause that requires revoking a license. No none, NO ONE, is denied a gun purchase unless the judge has found proper cause to revoke the permit. Such cause may be a criminal conviction since getting the license. I have searched and can't find any situation where any permit holder was denied his new gun. An electronic search on the NYS Unified Court System finds no CPLR Article 78 appeal proceedings filed in any court for this. So please cite this one as well.
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    Now either cite these crazy laws you insist exist or... keep digging the hole. Your choice. BTW, remember to leave your gun in the car at the bank, while eating or watching a frigging parade. Your permission slip says you're not entitled to defend yourself in the situations.
    what load of babbling BS! you lost me when you said you had a NYC carry and then try to tell me that Manhattan is too crowded for anyone with a gun to ever be able to use it. if you really lived in NYC you'd know that most of the city is NOT TIMES SQ. I can walk you down dozens of streets in midtown in the middle of the day that are almost devoid of people so I have to conclude that you are a full
    of crap TROLL, you know little to nothing about being, living, working or gun ownership in NYC! as for the rest of your idiocy about certain laws pertaining to only an area covered by a US circuit court of appeals, are you kidding??? that is unconstitutional under the equal protection under the law.
    again, you are proving yourself to be a first rate KOOK.
    as for permission slips, I accurately described what someone in NYC NASSAU COUNTY, SUFFOLK COUNTY, WESTCHESTER COUNTY< ROCKLAND COUNTY and others have to go through to get permission to buy a weapon. if you say otherwise it is just more proof of your complete cluelessness.

  2.   
  3. #112
    Arrested for having 2 "extra" bullets in his gun.

    Attachment 9638

    Really dude, you can't be serious

    Oh wait, this is Krazy Kuomo Land we are talking about.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    And for all the folks who have never walked the streets of Manhattan shoulder to shoulder, carrying a gun is about the most ridiculous thing you think you can do. A primary rule in self-defense is that you may not take the shot, even if your life is in danger, unless you have a clear shot/clear background. That direction DOES NOT EXIST in Manhattan. Not on any day at any time.
    Manhattan doesn't have buildings with rooms? It's an island covered entirely with sidewalks filled with shoulder to shoulder people? When did they tear all the buildings down? Because I've seen pictures of Manhattan, and there were buildings there before. It had to be after 9/11 because the World Trade Center was there before that.
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    Sorry for the sarcasm, but the claim that there is no safe firing location on the island of Manhattan is ridiculous. Where were all the shoulder to shoulder people when the Austrailian tourist was being raped in Manhattan back in February? Police hunt for suspect in rape of Australian tourist in Manhattan | Fox News
    Where were they when a nanny was stabbing two kids to death in a bathtub? Kids stabbed dead in NYC home; nanny, knife nearby
    How about when the pizza delivery boy raped a woman in Manhattan? Pizza delivery boy rapes woman in Manhattan apartment: police - NY Daily News
    Spare me the anti-gunner drivel about a gun being useless for self defense in New York City. That's a load of crap and it always has been.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    what load of babbling BS! you lost me when you said you had a NYC carry and then try to tell me that Manhattan is too crowded for anyone with a gun to ever be able to use it. if you really lived in NYC you'd know that most of the city is NOT TIMES SQ. I can walk you down dozens of streets in midtown in the middle of the day that are almost devoid of people so I have to conclude that you are a full
    of crap TROLL, you know little to nothing about being, living, working or gun ownership in NYC! as for the rest of your idiocy about certain laws pertaining to only an area covered by a US circuit court of appeals, are you kidding??? that is unconstitutional under the equal protection under the law.
    again, you are proving yourself to be a first rate KOOK.
    as for permission slips, I accurately described what someone in NYC NASSAU COUNTY, SUFFOLK COUNTY, WESTCHESTER COUNTY< ROCKLAND COUNTY and others have to go through to get permission to buy a weapon. if you say otherwise it is just more proof of your complete cluelessness.
    You're very good at insults but not very bright. I also detect some antisocial personality issues (You'll have to look it up). Took a look at your posting history and found you attack anyone who's opinion differs with you. You make it personal, hurl names and insults. Also found you can't let an issue go. You will attack until you get the last word whether you're right or wrong. Troll? Yeah. I have over 3,800 likes on this site. I'm quite the troll. But this troll reads your posting history and sees mild antisocial personality disorder. It jumps right of the screen, post after post.
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    Don't know NYC? I live in the mountains 70 miles North of NYC. I own a large IT consulting company in midtown Manhattan. I've owned it for over 25 years. I received my college degrees from NYU and Columbia. I lived there during my college days. The company has done so well that I retired from it in my forties. It is now being sold-off as I'm done schlepping for new business. This "first rate KOOK" is laughing all the way to the bank, courtesy of NYC. So let's discuss NYC and your first rate knowledge of PP. When I said there are people in every direction and no safe direction, that would be an accurate statement. Buildings and glass are not a safe direction. When you take a shot you must have a completely clear and safe background... not the glass wall of a bank or office building. Not a car or bus as so many choke the streets. Not a ricochet from a sidewalk or building that hits a bystander as in the Empire State Building shootout last year. How many innocents were clipped by errant rounds? I stand by the statement. Besides, you don't live in NYC, the people in NYC want it that way so what the hell do you care?
    .
    Starting PPA was a fun venture. We started it to make the permit process smooth and easy and to teach the masses how to protect themselves and family. We've handled over 2,000 permits and amendments for clients over the past 10 years. We've seen 2 or 3 denials in that entire time. One of my partners at PPA is a NYC attorney, former NYC Deputy DA and contributor at Fox News, CNN and HLN. We know this stuff cold. You don't. I've asked for citations and you have none so I'll stop discussing it with you. You're merely scratching an itch; reacting to a chemical response in the brain, not providing factual, intellectual discussion.
    .
    And while this law may be unconstitutional that will be decided when the issue is heard by the SCOTUS. This issue is currently working it's way through the lower courts, already having been decided as I stated by the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in September 2011, which covers NY, CT and VT. Read the decision. Be educated. Argue from a point of knowledge.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Yep. My mistake. Home rule only gives them the authority to restrict governmental buildings. Only NYC can enact their own restrictions. Apologies.
    Yes. The same holds true for the residential and psychiatric facilities you listed. The law only applies to state run mental health or residential facilities. It does not apply to private facilities. Also, it is only a violation to disobey the laws you listed. Administrative violations of the CCR aren't treated as crimes. They are not part of the penal law. Regarding parks you listed NYS PL Article 190 but that was incorrect. Penal Law Article 190 deals with crimes related to fraud. I believe you're referencing DEC law. So this is not a gun crime but is rather an administrative violation. Those caught violating the parks rule are merely asked to remove the gun. We mountain-bike on state lands bordering our property. They have a kiosk stating the rules for that particular park. One rule says that no person may openly carry a pistol unless engaged in hunting.
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    AVPBGUY wrongly stated to you "wrong again barney, many counties surrounding NYC have places restrictions similar to NYC's". That is actually incorrect. Any county can issue a restriction. They are backed by the second circuit decision handed down in September 2011. The counties he lists do issue many restricted permits but also issue unrestricted permits. There is no law or provision that prohibits a person from having an unrestricted permit. Persons in danger of harm, persons who carry money, etc., regularly obtain unrestricted permits. There is also no law in those counties that prohibits anyone from carrying a concealed handgun.
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    Yes Rhino, NYC has buildings with rooms. It is not just sidewalk and roads. And there are tens of thousands of buildings with glass walls that can be penetrated by a bullet. Those streets are jammed with cars jockeying for position. NYC is not a place where you can find a safe direction because no matter where you point the gun there are people to be endangered. Perhaps my wording could have been better. People, cars, buses, taxis, glass buildings, sidewalks and ricochets.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  7. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Yes Rhino, NYC has building with rooms. It is not just sidewalk and roads. And there are tens of thousands of buildings with glass walls that can be penetrated by a bullet. Those streets are jammed with cars jockeying for position. NYC is not a place where you can find a safe direction because no matter where you point the gun there are people to be endangered. Perhaps my wording could have been better.
    I'll defer to you and others on the laws in NY. I know only what I've read. What I've read tells me NY law is even more convoluted than Ohio law, and that's really saying something. The 'no safe place to fire a gun' in Manhattan thing is still a load of bovine excrement though. All the walls in Manhattan are not glass, and guns are fired quite regularly there without hitting innocent bystanders or people in the next room. There is no city in America where guns could not or should not be effectively used for self defense.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  8. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I'll defer to you and others on the laws in NY. I know only what I've read. What I've read tells me NY law is even more convoluted than Ohio law, and that's really saying something. The 'no safe place to fire a gun' in Manhattan thing is still a load of bovine excrement though. All the walls in Manhattan are not glass, and guns are fired quite regularly there without hitting innocent bystanders or people in the next room. There is no city in America where guns could not or should not be effectively used for self defense.
    The problem in NYC is ricochet. Historically, a lot of police shootings in NYC have injured bystanders. Last year this became a heated topic when NYC LEO were involved in a shootout at the Empire State Building. Nine bystanders where shot in that incident (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/ny...sues.html?_r=0). Every direction is concrete, glass, metal, cars, buses or people. And some of our posters, if allowed, would be slinging a fully automatic weapon anywhere they could. I for one don't want to walk around at rush hour with millions of people armed just because they believe they have the right to do so. Many of these rocket scientists have no training in the defensive use of a handgun. Just as one has no absolute first amendment right I believe that there is no absolute second amendment right. Somewhere there will be a line that espouses the desires of a population. And in NYC the population has spoken. Anyone not agreeing need only stay out of that city. As far as the upstate region it's an entirely different situation. A completely different set of law exist upstate. Permit restrictions are most times temporary and applied to new CCW permit holders. We regularly file amendments to lift restrictions and are usually successful. Once a permit holder has some experience or has increased their knowledge through a CC or PP class the restrictions can usually be lifted. The rule, not the exception, upstate is unrestricted carry. That is our experience. Many posters on USA Carry have used our services to lift restrictions regularly. We charge no member of this forum for assistance.
    .
    Some judges choose to apply their personal beliefs and restrict permits. While that's unfortunate it is not NYS law that allows them to do this it is the federal court decision from the second circuit court of appeals in September 2011 that paved the way.
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    What I see as problematic is people passing judgment on a state where they are not versed in the facts and/or law. While there is a 7-round rule there are not restrictions on the places we go regularly such as banks, churches, restaurants, voting, hospitals, etc. And anyone caught carrying outside of their restrictions cannot be arrested as they are exempt from criminal charges under NY PL S265.20(3). My point, as explained in many NY bashing posts is that laws exist in nearly every state that allow the denial of a permit or restrict the permit so one can't carry their gun where they most need it. If any provision of law exists that denies the right to carry in common places as described above, it represents the worst of gun control... NO GUN is far worse than 7-rounds. The law in NYS is not convoluted at all. PL Article 265 is only a few pages and is absolutely direct.
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    Now I'm gonna get bashed for this but it's still fact. Why? Because despite facts and laws, public opinion will continue to crow an uninformed position... it's just human nature. We're a complaining, argumentative, pain in the ass society that's never happy.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. #118
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    People should stop worrying about a ricochet and worry about hitting the intended target!


    Below is a chart from one department study (Miami) I found that might help you see what I’m talking about. As you can see, they have a 65% miss rate with revolvers and 75% miss rate with semi-automatics. Did you get that? 75% of the rounds fired are misses. And people are concerned about a problem with over- penetration?

    (Miami) Metro-Dade Police Department
    Statistical Abstract of Shooting Incidents, 1988-1994
    SHOTS THAT HIT INTENDED TARGET, BY TYPE OF FIREARM
    HANDGUN TYPE REVOLVER SEMI-AUTOMATIC TOTAL HIT PROBABILITY
    HIT SUSPECT 19 (35%) 17 (25%) 36 (30%)
    MISSED SUSPECT 35 (65%) 51 (75%) 86 (70%)
    TOTAL 54 (100%) 68 (100%) 122 (100%)

    Recently published Metro-Dade Police 1990-2001 shooting data shed more light on issues seen elsewhere. During that 12-year period, Metro-Dade Police fired about 1,300 bullets at suspects, and missed more than 1,100 times. This suggests that Miami police fared no better than a 15.4% hit ratio, even though many of these incidents involved suspects who were later determined to be unarmed.
    In yet another department study (NYPD), only 9% of the bullets hit their intended targets; 91% of the rounds fired MISSED.

    NYPD GUNFIGHT STATISTICS IN 2000
    HIT PROBABILITY 9%
    SHOTS FIRED PER GUNFIGHT 16.8
    SHOTS FIRED PER OFFICER 6.9
    We do not have an over-penetration issue; we have an issue around NOT hitting the bad guys.


    Sent from behind enemy lines.

  10. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorrison View Post
    People should stop worrying about a ricochet and worry about hitting the intended target!


    Below is a chart from one department study (Miami) I found that might help you see what I’m talking about. As you can see, they have a 65% miss rate with revolvers and 75% miss rate with semi-automatics. Did you get that? 75% of the rounds fired are misses. And people are concerned about a problem with over- penetration?

    (Miami) Metro-Dade Police Department
    Statistical Abstract of Shooting Incidents, 1988-1994
    SHOTS THAT HIT INTENDED TARGET, BY TYPE OF FIREARM
    HANDGUN TYPE REVOLVER SEMI-AUTOMATIC TOTAL HIT PROBABILITY
    HIT SUSPECT 19 (35%) 17 (25%) 36 (30%)
    MISSED SUSPECT 35 (65%) 51 (75%) 86 (70%)
    TOTAL 54 (100%) 68 (100%) 122 (100%)

    Recently published Metro-Dade Police 1990-2001 shooting data shed more light on issues seen elsewhere. During that 12-year period, Metro-Dade Police fired about 1,300 bullets at suspects, and missed more than 1,100 times. This suggests that Miami police fared no better than a 15.4% hit ratio, even though many of these incidents involved suspects who were later determined to be unarmed.
    In yet another department study (NYPD), only 9% of the bullets hit their intended targets; 91% of the rounds fired MISSED.

    NYPD GUNFIGHT STATISTICS IN 2000
    HIT PROBABILITY 9%
    SHOTS FIRED PER GUNFIGHT 16.8
    SHOTS FIRED PER OFFICER 6.9
    We do not have an over-penetration issue; we have an issue around NOT hitting the bad guys.


    Sent from behind enemy lines.
    Thanks for the info. Very telling. I had no idea it was that high.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  11. #120
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    I am amazed that there are not more incidents of personal injury based on the NYPD hit/miss ratio.
    They also have to deal with the NY trigger, #10 pull weight I believe.


    Sent from behind enemy lines.

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